Building the best 500/416 bullets? Questions I have

[Still alive]

Trying to make a 500/416 bullet. I have all the recipes from here, the internet and woodleigh reloading book. My questions are:

use hornady brass or Jameson

use cci 250 or federal 215m primers

powder?? H1000, h4831sc or retumbo which is like Norma 217

build to col at 4.055 or use a modified case and measure?

chronograph? Have the v3 magneto for single or buy another chrono for the double? If so which one is best to use at the range?

the really big question is build the bullets using woodleigh 410 gr soft and solid?

Thanks for your help, my gun is on its way from the east coast to the nearest ffl for ten day dros.

 

[AZDAVE]

I am using Hornaday brass, as it is what I was able to purchase at the time I bought my double.
I use FED 215's
I am using IMR 7828.
Always measure to determine the correct OAL.
I use a magnospeed on my bolts and single shots and a screen style with doubles.
If you can get the matching woodleighs that will work, I use 400gr swift A-frames and CEB solids.

Some of what you will end up using will be based on what you have on hand and what you can purchase in these times of shortages.

 

[Tanks]

Trying to make a 500/416 bullet. ...

Thanks for your help, my gun is on its way from the east coast to the nearest ffl for ten day dros.

I would recommend .416 CEB bullets instead of making your own.

Where in CA are you? Yes, the 10 day DROS sucks.

 

[Still alive]

CERRITOS area. 91 and the 605.

 

[fourfive8]

I'd choose tougher softs- TSX, A-Frame or TBBC come to mind. I like banded copper solids like the North Fork FPS. The GSC FPS, also a banded copper solid, was a great bullet- unfortunately unobtanium unless you can find some NOS somewhere.

 

[Inline6]

Trying to make a 500/416 bullet. I have all the recipes from here, the internet and woodleigh reloading book. My questions are:

use hornady brass or Jameson

use cci 250 or federal 215m primers

powder?? H1000, h4831sc or retumbo which is like Norma 217

build to col at 4.055 or use a modified case and measure?

chronograph? Have the v3 magneto for single or buy another chrono for the double? If so which one is best to use at the range?

the really big question is build the bullets using woodleigh 410 gr soft and solid?

Thanks for your help, my gun is on its way from the east coast to the nearest ffl for ten day dros.

Why would you need a new chronograph? Mount your V3 at 90° for the right barrel and 270° for the left. It is not required to be 180° to get an accurate reading.

As far as components go, use what you can get. The rifle will tell you what it likes best.

I have been thinking hard on this round, it's between this and a 470 for myself. Please post up your results so that it may help others like me make a decision haha.

 

[fourfive8]

The first question to answer is, “what will the rifle be used for”? If for serious hunting, “whatever is available” is a bad answer. I looked online for a few minutes last night and found some premium softs and monolithic flat point solids in stock from various sources.

If for punching paper or practice then yes, most any bullet.

 

[Still alive]

I have all the components listed above, primers, powder and cases are arriving today. I bought them for my 300 win mag and 375.

I bought this for Cape buffalo and hippos for 2023, plus I have always wanted a double rifle!!

it looks like factory bullets were 400-410 gr. I wrote to Kreighoff and asked them what the factory round was used on this rifle. Waiting to hear back from them.

 

[Inline6]

The first question to answer is, “what will the rifle be used for”? If for serious hunting, “whatever is available” is a bad answer. I looked online for a few minutes last night and found some premium softs and monolithic flat point solids in stock from various sources.

If for punching paper or practice then yes, most any bullet.

The OP did say he wanted to use woodleigh 410 gr soft and solid. Not sure if he has them on hand or not but that's what he stated.

As for the rest of it, powder and primers and I am not sure on brass are hard to find.

 

[IvW]

Be careful with monometal bullets in a Krieghoff double rifle.....

 

[fourfive8]

A correctly designed banded copper mono metal bullet creates no more pressure or stress than a conventional bullet. The original smooth shanked Barnes X and even the current Nosler mono metals (and some others) do not have a drive band design or an adequate one and I would not shoot them in any older thin walled or “soft” double. Matter of fact I would not shoot them in anything- too many better choices. To some degree same goes for some brass bullets. Brass is less malleable than copper, so banded or not, brass tends to create more pressure and stress than copper- all other things being equal. Examine the CEB brass mono metal drive band spacing- there’s a reason for the large void space between the top and base drive bands

I asked a designer and maker of copper mono metal bullets a couple of years ago why a lot of makers use brass instead of copper. He said because it was easier to maintain tight specs on the turning of brass than copper. And it was easier to maintain consistency of brass alloy and annealing of the raw product.

 

[IvW]

A correctly designed banded copper mono metal bullet creates no more pressure or stress than a conventional bullet. The original smooth shanked Barnes X and even the current Nosler mono metals (and some others) do not have a drive band design or an adequate one and I would not shoot them in any older thin walled or “soft” double. Matter of fact I would not shoot them in anything- too many better choices. To some degree same goes for some brass bullets. Brass is less malleable than copper, so banded or not, brass tends to create more pressure and stress than copper- all other things being equal. Examine the CEB brass mono metal drive band spacing- there’s a reason for the large void space between the top and base drive bands

I asked a designer and maker of copper mono metal bullets a couple of years ago why a lot of makers use brass instead of copper. He said because it was easier to maintain tight specs on the turning of brass than copper. And it was easier to maintain consistency of brass alloy and annealing of the raw product.

Krieghoff do not understand that......

 

[fourfive8]

I have shot a lot of all the banded mono metal bullets mentioned and some others and have not noticed any pressure issues per unit of velocity. Not unusual to reach objective velocity without high pressure signs with these bullets and many times easier than with some of the conventional bullets. Not to be confused with that POS smooth shanked original Barnes X mono metal. That was one of worst bullets I ever loaded of any variety and abandoned it after about 25 rounds. Never touched another Barnes until they completely re-designed the mono metal bullet and came out with the banded TSX. Conversely, it is an excellent bullet.

Two dynamics at play and some get all wound around the axle trying to differentiate between the two. Wear and pressure/stress. I think if I shot an expensive double I would be most cautious about the stress part. Not that the action would give or chamber or barrel blow but cautious about the dynamic stress to the integrity of the connection between the barrels. Some gun companies live on the edge I guess and say no problem, some get all lawyered up and say no way no how to be on safe side thereby thinking they can dodge having to deal with damaged guns down the road. Many times just straw man arguments. The same for the companies making the bullets. In the end, up to the loader/shooter what to shoot.

Here's four banded mono metals mentioned during the thread. I do not have a Woodleigh Hydro but it is a banded brass mono metal.
L to R... CEB brass, TSX copper, GSC copper annealed, North Fork copper

 

[1dirthawker]

still alive,

a chronograph will be essential, once you hear about what factory ammo they regulated your gun with, verify it by shooting your rifle. chronograph the factory ammo.

then, if the bullets are farther apart than you like, you can speed them up slightly to bring together and if they are crossing, you can slow them down till they shoot properly.

cal pappas and graham write both cover the subject in much more detail than the quick and dirty i just wrote, good luck with the rifle!

 

[sureshot375]

I’d wait to get your rifle and see what was used to regulate it.

Woodleigh is hard to beat. Most of the older krieghoffs were regulated with the krieghoff ammo which was loaded with Woodleigh softs and solids. Your rifle is newer so it could have been regulated with something else.

 

[Still alive]

This is what I’m going to start with. Per kreighoff per the data sheet they sent me from C.I.P

no other data sources from them of what was with the rifle was found

Im going to shoot 5 each of the cci250 and five fed 215m primers. I think the fed 215m burns a little faster

going to fire form and re shoot

will make a modified case after shooting to verify col



woodleigh .416 410 gr rn sn
hornady cases
cci 250/ fed 215m
h1000- 108 gr
coal per cip 101.09

woodleigh .416 410 gr FMJ
hornady case
cci 250/ fed215m
h1000
coal per cip 101.09

 

[MMAL]

Sorry I am late to this thread but own a kreighoff 500/416. What I settle on, usual legal disclaimers inserted here.

Swift a-frame -400gr - h4831sc -97gr
Hornady dgs-400gr - h4831sc- 95gr

The softs went out at 2250 FPS the solid at 2195 FPS. But hit in the same spot.

I had worked up woodleigh -410gr softs. H1000 -106grains.

NF CUP SOLID -400 gr- 105 grains of h1000.

The last two group well from left/right barrel but different impact point. Choose top two again because they group closet to each other.

Good luck.