Bulging cases, what am I doing wrong?

[Aussie_Hunter]

Brains trust help me out please.

I reloaded 50 rounds of 458 Lott using new Hornady brass and had no issues. I am now trying to reload some more rounds using once fired Hornady brass and the cases are bulging when seating the bullets, what am I doing wrong? After being fired the cases were FL resized, trimmed, deburred, cleaned and the cases look fine before seating the bullets.

I did a bit of research online but I am seeing a huge range of different issues people mentioning it could be and some people saying not to worry about it they will still work just fine.

Any ideas?

 

[CBH Australia]

Worst case, disassemble or try In a safe place. Watching with interest, keen reloader with a few rounds under my belt but if the projectiles are in spec then I’m I not sure why. Umm maybe dies are tighter than spec,

 

[Alistair]

When you seat them, how far in is the bullet seating stalk? I found that if that was too far out and you're adjusting the seating depth by screwing in the whole die, you can end up with the base of the die touching the case rim and crushing it. I've done it with the 44mag, same sort of bulges.

EDIT: looked at the pics again. Got to be a resizing issue. What's the measured inside neck diameter when you resize. This looks like a lot more than the usual 0.005" or so.

Al.

 

[IvW]

Answer will be found here....

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/is-something-wrong.39205/

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/458-lott-resizing-oddest-thing-ive-ever-seen.22594/

 

[Luvthunt]

Your full length die may be a bit undersized and as you do not have an expander ball in straight cases for the Lott and only use a mouth belling (lightly) you will get some brass to show the formation you pic’d.
Loaded around a thousand rounds of 458 s and many were like your pic. All chambered with no issues. By the way did you try randa chamber any of the rounds. I did see at times a variation and when I measured case wall thickness the issue was the case IMO.
Also chronyed some of the worst and variation from others was within range of all.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Your full length die may be a bit undersized and as you do not have an expander ball in straight cases for the Lott and only use a mouth belling (lightly) you will get some brass to show the formation you pic’d.
Loaded around a thousand rounds of 458 s and many were like your pic. All chambered with no issues. By the way did you try randa chamber any of the rounds. I did see at times a variation and when I measured case wall thickness the issue was the case IMO.
Also chronyed some of the worst and variation from others was within range of all.

I have read some info from other people suggesting exactly what you have said, that it's most likely the brass and also they have never had an issues with rounds like this when it comes to feeding, firing, velocity, accuracy etc.
I only loaded 2 like this and then stopped so when I get back to the range I will take the 2 rounds with me and test cycling, feeding and fire them. If I have no issues I might as well just keep on loading and not worry about the issue by the sound of it. Thanks for the response.

 

[Dewald]

The best solution for that is a .450 Rigby reamer...

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I think I found the problem, I just came across some info that suggests the Hornady dies are resizing the mouth to 0.452".
The Hornady trimmer pilot for the 458 Lott and probably also the 458WM is 0.452" that suggests to me the die is resizing the mouth to 0.452"

 

[postoak]

Did you read those links that IvW posted, especially the second one? 0.452" is okay.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Did you read those links that IvW posted, especially the second one? 0.452" is okay.

Yeah I still don't quite understand why it's so undersized though, anyway at the end of the day it sounds like a nonissue.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I just went back and measured the mouth of some of my resized brass and it's actually only measuring 0.441" which isn't even close to 0.452". If I flare the case mouth I can get the flare to 0.452" but the flare doesn't go far enough down the case to completely alleviate the issue...............

 

[CoElkHunter]

I’m a novice to reloading my .458 WM with it’s straight walled case. Still waiting for an order of Lott brass, so haven’t reloaded those yet. But when I used the ball expander die on new WM cases, I only “bell” open the case enough to seat the bullet? I haven’t reloaded fired cases yet, but their length still seems to be the same as new cases. So, I’m not going to FL resize them but will check and trim to length if necessary? In the example of the bulged case, did you use the ball expander die before seating the bullet? Anyway, if the reloaded cartridge chambers, shoot it! I had an issue years ago with dented shoulders in new .338 WM ammo. I had loose rounds in my pants pocket along with a pocket knife, which apparently dented the shoulders when I knelt down while I was hunting. But I didn’t notice the dented shoulders until after firing the cartridges and didn’t know how they got dented. I took a cartridge with a dented shoulder along with my rifle to a gunsmith thinking I had a headspace or other issue. He said the headspace was fine and just shoot the cartridges as the brass will fire form to original specs in the chamber. FYI

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I’m a novice to reloading my .458 WM with it’s straight walled case. Still waiting for an order of Lott brass, so haven’t reloaded those yet. But when I used the ball expander die on new WM cases, I only “bell” open the case enough to seat the bullet? I haven’t reloaded fired cases yet, but their length still seems to be the same as new cases. So, I’m not going to FL resize them but will check and trim to length if necessary? In the example of the bulged case, did you use the ball expander die before seating the bullet? Anyway, if the reloaded cartridge chambers, shoot it! I had an issue years ago with dented shoulders in new .338 WM ammo. I had loose rounds in my pants pocket along with a pocket knife, which apparently dented the shoulders when I knelt down while I was hunting. But I didn’t notice the dented shoulders until after firing the cartridges and didn’t know how they got dented. I took a cartridge with a dented shoulder along with my rifle to a gunsmith thinking I had a headspace or other issue. He said the headspace was fine and just shoot the cartridges as the brass will fire form to original specs in the chamber. FYI

Yeah issue seems to be FL resizing the brass which is bringing the mouth down to 0.441". I have done quite a bit of research since starting this thread and it looks like it appears to be a common issue not just with the Honrady dies but most 458 Lott dies, I have found comments online where people have said they have had this issue with RCBS and Redding dies as well. Anyway I have loaded up 10 rounds since I already had the cases primed, when I get a chance I will test fire some and then only neck size the brass instead of running it all the way through the die, this seems to be the suggestion from most people that have had the same issue.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yeah issue seems to be FL resizing the brass which is bringing the mouth down to 0.441". I have done quite a bit of research since starting this thread and it looks like it appears to be a common issue not just with the Honrady dies but most 458 Lott dies, I have found comments online where people have said they have had this issue with RCBS and Redding dies as well. Anyway I have loaded up 10 rounds since I already had the cases primed, when I get a chance I will test fire some and then only neck size the brass instead of running it all the way through the die, this seems to be the suggestion from most people that have had the same issue.

Yeah and unless your rounds are loaded hot, I wouldn’t even bother to crimp? Those bullets aren’t going anywhere as tight as they are in those cases.

 

[flatwater bill]

You have gotten the answer in some of the posts above. If bullets .458 diam, and brass length ok, and chamber ok, shoot them.....they'll do fine.......FWB

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Yeah and unless your rounds are loaded hot, I wouldn’t even bother to crimp? Those bullets aren’t going anywhere as tight as they are in those cases.

Not overly concerned about pressure issues, it's not a max load and it's a slow burning powder. I'll fire one round and inspect the case before firing anymore. But yeah I agree I don't think a crimp is necessary haha shes a tight old squeeze

 

[sestoppelman]

As long as they chamber.....

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

As long as they chamber.....

Yeah sorry didn't mention that they seem to chamber, cycle just fine.

 

[sestoppelman]

Common thing, no big. Just blast them off and load them again!!

 

[fourfive8]

Yep very common in straight-walled cases. Just a matter of minimum spec sizing die/neck expander in relation to bullet diameter. Especially noticeable if the sizer die has only a mouth flaring "expander" for bullet starting and not a true neck expander. The issue is mostly a cosmetic one with the bullet expanding the case mouth as it seats. The nature of expanding unsupported brass that way usually results in an off axis expansion. On another thread there is some discussion of the positives of using a separate neck expanding die.

A couple of possible options. Either ignore it as it's really not a huge issue but may have a small affect on accuracy if that is of concern. Or try to correct it. If I were to try to correct or reduce the "bulge effect", I'd remove the neck expander (or flaring insert if that's what's in the die) and set the sizing die to size just enough so the cartridges chamber without friction and the neck is sized sufficiently to securely hold the bullet. I would then get a separate die dedicated to only expand the neck. Lyman calls it an M die. Redding uses a similar neck expander in their expander die for the straight walls like the Lott. I use a Redding FL sizer for the Lott without any expander or button for sizing only. And a Redding expander die with the expander sized to .454" for neck expanding. .004" is plenty of neck tension when used along with a correct crimp applied with the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Top pic shows the FL sizer without any expander and the separate expander die (marked M) with the expander removed. The expander is adjusted for the full seating depth of the bullet. The neck ID is sized to about .453-.454" with spring back. I do not use the flare step on the expander- that is used mainly for seating cast bullets. Light inside mouth chamfer is enough to start most jacketed bullets smoothly.

Bottom pic shows 450 Watts/458 Lott full resized for no friction chambering. These are neck expanded as explained above with the .454" expander and crimped with the Lee FCD and they do not move under full recoil. And no bulge