Commercial Mauser vs military Mauser

[Ontario Hunter]

I know the readily visible difference between a commercial vs military Mauser action: thumb slot on the left side of receiver and stripper clip port on top. But is there also a difference in the magazine box height? Here's the problem. Last year I built a 404 Jeffery on an 8mm Czech military Mauser action that had been rebarreled to 30-06. To jump around parts import/export issues, I planned to take the action to Montana as a whole 30-06 rifle and have the new barrel installed there. I am a US citizen and Canadian Permanent Resident with firearms license so I can freely carry my guns across the border ... as long as they are WHOLE guns. Parts and ammo gets messy. Anyway, for that purpose my gunsmith buddy gave me a junker commercial Mauser stock that had been broken and glued back together as a form for stock making machine. But before I could drop the action into it a deal on a good stock came up. The new bottom metal had also arrived so I went ahead and put the gun together with new stock and bottom metal, drove it to Montana as a 30-06, and the 404 barrel was installed.

The stock I acquired is okay but it was cut for an action with trigger block side safety and I'd already installed a nice 3-position Model 70 style striker safety. I plugged the hole in the stock and kept my eye out for something better.

Fast forward to this month when I found a beautiful used stock with fine checkering on an auction site. The barrel channel was quite thick and vendor was having trouble finding a buyer. It worked for me with my 404's fat #5 barrel profile so we made a deal. When it arrived I noticed a few things that told me this stock had probably at one time held a thumper gun, most likely DGR. Besides the fat barrel channel, it only had one sling swivel at the butt. Forward sling swivel must have been attached to barrel ring = African gun. Also the well in the stock for magazine box was already oversized. My 404's 416 Rem Mag bottom metal almost dropped in. Curiously, this stock has no crossbolts (which I plan to fix). Of course the actions were not the same and making things fit together required two days of careful trimming. Finally, everything was together ... almost. Forward action screw pulled the barrel and bottom metal together nicely in the stock. But there was a problem at the other end. With rear action screw snugged down all the way the top and bottom tangs were WAY too loose in the stock. Hmmm. The end of the action screw hole is crimped to prevent screw from going through into the track for striker sear. So I shortened the screw by grinding off some of the end. That pulled things together some ... until the top of magazine box was tight against the receiver. The tangs are still not flush into their slots in the stock. So why did this bottom metal fit the other stock but not this one? Did a gunsmith custom make this stock for someone with small hands? I put the Timney trigger back in the action and when I pulled the gun together with shortened action screw, the top of the trigger was jammed against the top of the trigger guard. What the ... ? I got out my caliper and measured the distance between tang slots in both slots. The depth of the stock I built last year was significantly more than this one. Then I remembered I still had the patched together commercial stock my buddy gave me. Depth between tang slots was exactly the same as this commercial stock! It appears the back end of the magnum bottom metal I bought from Swift is much deeper than standard commercial Mauser box. Unfortunately, I no longer have the military bottom metal to compare to Swift box height. And no, the new bottom metal is not "extended" for 4+1. But why did that bottom metal fit in the first unfinished stock I purchased but not either of these two commercial stocks?

My question is: has anyone run into stock variations of this sort in 98 Mausers? It looks like there's plenty of room in the box for me to shorten the height of magazine at back end and still stack three cartridges in the box. However, I'm not sure there'll still be enough room to shove a fourth round under the claw and close the chamber. I have perfected snap over and can always fall back on that I guess, though it is hard on the extractor. The Timney trigger will be way too tall if the bottom metal height is shortened but I can always heat it and reshape (trigger is steel).

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

There are lots of different Mauser bottom metal layouts, at least six I can think of off the top of my head, commercial and military, with lock screw holes and without, with different height mag wells to suit. My 8x68 stock mag well is different to my 404 and to my Colombian carbine and the mag well in what will be my 275 Jef, but the same as my 280 nitro. Different countries built things to suit their cartridges and egos
gumpy

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Should add that is just with military actions, my commercial are similar to the 280 and 275.
gumpy

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I trimmed the sides of mag box to pull the tangs together. Didn't require removing as much metal as I anticipated. The rear action screw had to be shortened significantly. Almost ran out of thread. And finally, I reshaped the trigger shoe to clear the trigger guard.

This stock is substantially thinner through the wrist. Next step is installing crossbolts. They are waiting to be picked up as soon as this four-day blizzard breaks. Then glass bedding. And then stripping and refinish.

Wondering if I should reinforce the wrist with a steel rod through the pistol grip?

 

[saswart]

Ontario I think your problem and the existing stocks problem is all the modifications. Probably the previous stock's owner also had different parts and the stock just did not work. They sold it before or even knowing the importance of the crossbolts.

Unfortunately using different parts, requires work to the stock.

Best bet would be to get a blank, take it to a gunsmith who can build you a proper stock that will fit your existing modified FA.

What you are doing now is modifying the gun to fit the stock which I do not believe is the correct and safe way to about it.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Ontario I think your problem and the existing stocks problem is all the modifications. Probably the previous stock's owner also had different parts and the stock just did not work. They sold it before or even knowing the importance of the crossbolts.

Unfortunately using different parts, requires work to the stock.

Best bet would be to get a blank, take it to a gunsmith who can build you a proper stock that will fit your existing modified FA.

What you are doing now is modifying the gun to fit the stock which I do not believe is the correct and safe way to about it.

It has new bottom metal so the action is not original. When building these guns it's to be expected modifications must be made. After all, I'm making an entirely new and different rifle. Started with a standard action post war military 8mm Brno 98 Mauser and changed it into magnum 404 Jeffery. That requires significant changes to critical parts of the action: opening up the bolt face and extractor to accept 404's MUCH larger rim, reshaping the extractor to relieve some spring tension, changing the barrel and all that entails, carving into the forward ring to extend the feeding ramp for longer cartridges, carving into rear ring so fatter cartridges will eject, swapping 8mm military bottom metal for Swift-Blackburn custom 416 Rem bottom metal, changing to a longer and wider magnum follower, and modifying the feeding rails to cycle much longer and thicker 404 cartridges (the most critical and difficult modification). I also replaced the military trigger with Timney and the military flag safety with Parkwest 3-position Model 70 style safety. The iron sights are from a 1990's Winchester Model 70 Safari Express. So, in the scheme of things just shortening the sides of the back end of the magazine box and the rear action screw are relatively minor modifications to a rifle that has already had a total face-lift and almost all organs transplanted. As long as the box still had enough room for three shells and the magazine end plate didn't interfere with bolt travel (JUST clears it), there was no reason to expect shortening the box height should change how the gun operates. And it hasn't. I was relieved to find there is now still just enough room in the fully loaded magazine to shove a fourth round under the extractor and close the bolt. That was a concern when shortening the magazine height. I could always snap over on a fourth round dropped in the chamber but the push under extractor method is easier and less stressful on extractor. In the unlikely event this stock does not work out, I can always fall back on the first one I built for the project, although I'd likely have to replace the action screw which is not a problem. Tons of them, military surplus and new, can be found on the net cheap. Shortening the box height will have no effect on how that gun would operate.

I should add that others who changed to Timney trigger for their builds have also run into problems with the trigger being too long. Timney's answer to that was carve some relief from inside the trigger guard. Ugh! Once I determined the Timney shoe was steel and no plastic parts in the assembly, I simply put it in a vice, heated the shoe cherry red, and carefully reshaped the tip as needed. No problem. My finger is now nicely cradled though I doubt it would be practical wearing gloves (but I never shoot anything wearing gloves, especially not African dangerous game).

I live in the Great White North. It's a veritable wilderness up here for accessing gunsmiths. That's why I did this project myself (except installing the barrel). Two gunsmiths I did contact said this 404 build can't be done. But I knew it could. Jeffery initially built all their 404 rifles on standard 98 Mauser actions.