Concentricity-What is "Good Enough" for Safari Ammo

[uplander01]

I've been a hand loader for 25+ years and the one detail of the finished ammo that seems to take on a life of its own is concentricity. I fully realize that when shooting at extreme ranges 500+, it becomes a pretty important detail,....BUT, I'm interested in hearing other Hand Loaders opinions. When using a 375 and up in bore diameter and hunting at ranges of 200 yards and less, sometimes much less, how important is concentricity really?? I've measured run out out lots of factory ammo and have seen everything out to 10 thou, sometimes even more. I really struggle to get below 3, and usually end up between 3-5. Interested to hear what others are getting on average.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Are you seeing a difference on the target with concentric rounds?

 

[Joker12]

I've been a hand loader for 25+ years and the one detail of the finished ammo that seems to take on a life of its own is concentricity. I fully realize that when shooting at extreme ranges 500+, it becomes a pretty important detail,....BUT, I'm interested in hearing other Hand Loaders opinions. When using a 375 and up in bore diameter and hunting at ranges of 200 yards and less, sometimes much less, how important is concentricity really?? I've measured run out out lots of factory ammo and have seen everything out to 10 thou, sometimes even more. I really struggle to get below 3, and usually end up between 3-5. Interested to hear what others are getting on average.

I am more interested in how well it shoots at the ranges that I will be hunting at. In that context as long as my handloads are acceptably accurate it means nothing to me. I realize that for those who play the long range accuracy games it is important but for any hunting that I do its just not.

 

[bowjijohn]

If it goes bang

you are on a winner

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I stopped measuring concentricity and reaming primer pockets years ago. I found that at normal hunting ranges it is a waste of time unless you are chasing accuracy for long-range shooting. Me and some buddies did a big experiment years ago where we loaded the most perfect ammo possible and then cranked the same ammo out on a Dillon 550 where the only thing we did was trim the brass and full length resize it. For hunting, there was zero difference. Where we saw a noticeable difference was at ranges past 300m with long range accurized rifles. But even then, the ammo cranked out on the Dillon 550 was "MOA, as in "minute of anything" we wanted to hunt accurate.

Safe shooting

 

[JimP]

I think that people need to understand the difference between hunting grade and match grade ammo.

If you reload and happen onto a load that gives you both, great. Plus if you purchase factory ammo that will do the same thing then that is also great.

A lot of hunters don't realize that they don't need a sub MOA cartridge to go hunting with, that's withing normal ranges.

But if you talk to a lot of the long range shooters they will admit that a lot of what they do when they are loading ammo isn't needed.

 

[YancyW]

I don't live in a place where true long range shooting is easy to do, 1000 yard ranges are hard to find here. Most of my shooting is 1000 yards and in, when I load ammo, I measure accuracy at 200 yards and do my best to keep the spreads as low as possible. If I can get a load to shoot well at 200, while keeping my SD and ES low, it is going to shoot just fine for me.

 

[Doug3006]

I have used a concentricity gauge when I develop varmint loads, and yes, the more concentric the more accurate the load will be. However, there’s no practical reason to do so with African loads. A 1 MOA rifle and cartridge combination will be more than sufficient for 98% of the shots you’ll take over there. A 2 MOA combination will be good for 90%. Yes, these are scientifically derived percentages Anyway, you get the idea. I’m taking a couple of rifles to SA in a couple of weeks that are consistently 1-1.5” capable and I’m confident in them.

 

[uplander01]

Are you seeing a difference on the target with concentric rounds?

I will freely admit that I am not the greatest rifle shot. I completely dislike load development with 375 and up from the bench. I try to hand load as consistently as possible but once a rifle shows repeatable accuracy, whether that is a half inch group @ 100 or a 1.5” group at 100, I move to sticks and practice. The last long range shot I took was across a valley at a very large bull elk, it was about 420, I missed, clean thankfully. But that was the last time that I positioned myself like a sniper on a hunt and relied on the “long range rifle”.

All the responses lead me to believe that my striving for consistency in my loading technique is more for my ocd about being completely detail oriented in my loading process…..really won’t have any real life practical result on my hunts. It is kinda cool when an entire batch of ammo comes out nearly perfect….but it’s equally frustrating when it doesn’t lol.

 

[shootist~]

I utilize enough voodoo and superstitions in my reloading already. (Annealing / trimming brass every reload, using best brass & bullets, checking every powder drop on a second scale, etc.)

Checking concentricity and finding it less than perfect would probably put me in the nut house. So I never have.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I utilize enough voodoo and superstitions in my reloading already. (Annealing / trimming brass every reload, using best brass & bullets, checking every powder drop on a second scale, etc.)

Checking concentricity and finding it less than perfect would probably put me in the nut house. So I never have.

Not far enough down the rabbit hole. For an even powder burn, you really need to check the water capacity of each case and weigh the primers.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

What's concentricity?

I usually avoid things that are hard to spell and harder to pronounce.

 

[Doug3006]

In case that link didn’t post correctl, here’s the jist

The reason shooters work with tools and gauges to measure and control concentricity is simple: to make sure the bullet starts down the bore consistently in line with the bore. If the case isn’t properly concentric and the bullet isn’t properly aligned down the center of the bore, the bullet will enter the rifling inconsistently.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

One of my great mentors who taught me to reload was a competition benchrest shooter. Talk about OCD! However, he put it all in perspective for me when it came to loading for different applications such as plinking and hunting. I never will forget the extreme steps and processes he used to reload, load and fire one shot with his 6mm PPC.

Safe shooting

 

[fourfive8]

It will be almost impossible to load reliable hunting ammo with near zero runout. Target ammo is a completely different animal. The moment you run a cartridge into a resizing die with a neck expander button or into a sizer followed by a neck expander, runout has been introduced. Then when a bullet is seated with adequate neck tension for reliable hunting ammo, another source of runout is added. I try to reload hunting ammo with minimum runout but know there will always be some. The only way to overcome that would be to reload a bunch… maybe 500, then cull all but the best 20-40 by checking all 500 on a runout gauge. Even then no guarantees of finding those 20-40 rounds with an “acceptable” runout of .002” or less.

I’m as anal as anyone about the ammo I reload for hunting but concentricity is difficult if not impossible to realize when loading hunting dedicated ammo. Near perfect target ammo may not at all be suitable as the best for hunting, IMO. And, concentricity is only one of many factors affecting accuracy.

 

[bowjijohn]

I love the self effacing humour above

and enjoy the irony of spending illions of hours of load dev and only about 500 rounds of shooting per annum

this is, in my case, particularly relevant with large and medium calibres

what on earth is the point (I ask myself) in developing a medium calibre load that can shoot the knat’s whiskers off a bumble bee, but I don’t shoot (in practice) more than a few rounds at 20 to 100 yards

and that, I find, mostly in comp

Ask a game guide and/or a ph how much they shoot per annum

you might get a surprise

a game guide shoots bugger all

a PH?

a few, and mostly hunting for the pot

 

[Hififile324]

I've been a hand loader for 25+ years and the one detail of the finished ammo that seems to take on a life of its own is concentricity. I fully realize that when shooting at extreme ranges 500+, it becomes a pretty important detail,....BUT, I'm interested in hearing other Hand Loaders opinions. When using a 375 and up in bore diameter and hunting at ranges of 200 yards and less, sometimes much less, how important is concentricity really?? I've measured run out out lots of factory ammo and have seen everything out to 10 thou, sometimes even more. I really struggle to get below 3, and usually end up between 3-5. Interested to hear what others are getting on average.

Hello Uplander,
If you have purchased and shot factory ammo with good results the "Run-Out" averages about .005-.008 depending on factory. Where I worked we routinely held .006. As dies wear "run-out" increases. Also contact resistance of the die to press makes a change. Same on your press at home.

We have had high run-out numbers shoot better than low run-out numbers with a change in seating depth.

My advice to you is experiment with bullet type, seating depth and powder weight to find your magic load and practice. Don't drive yourself NUTZ with decimal points.

 

[TOBY458]

I would say the vast majority of hunters use factory loads that produce acceptable accuracy for any hunting applications within 400 yards. And if we're talking mid to large bore rifles, you can drop that distance down to 200 yards or less. I seriously doubt that any small variation in concentricity between your loads is going to amount to a hill of beans.

 

[Hififile324]

One last thing, If you are using a "run-out" gauge like a ball and dial Hornady or RCBS you will notice you can take the same round and measure it 3 times and get 3 different readings. You have to use a calibrated unit to ensure consistent readings. The Hornady, RCBS and Redding are all good but you have to train yourself to develop a "feel"!

 

[JimP]

I love the self effacing humour above

and enjoy the irony of spending illions of hours of load dev and only about 500 rounds of shooting per annum

this is, in my case, particularly relevant with large and medium calibres

what on earth is the point (I ask myself) in developing a medium calibre load that can shoot the knat’s whiskers off a bumble bee, but I don’t shoot (in practice) more than a few rounds at 20 to 100 yards

That's the trouble with most hunters who reload. The do it to save some money or to get the best accuracy out of a load that they can with what they shoot. But then they might take a few shots at a shooting range and call it good to go hunting with.

I've know hunters who only shot their rifle at game animals once the initial sight in was done, they might only shoot under 10 rounds a year, but as long as old Betsy gets the job done they are happy.

In my younger years I went through close to 10,000 rounds a year. Rifle, pistol, and shotgun ammo. I would reload all winter so that I could shoot all summer and fall. This time of year I'd be out shooting ground squirrels getting ready for our annual prairie dog shoot up in Montana where it was common to shoot up to 4,000 rounds during the trip. This was done with mostly 22 caliber rifles but it was fun to break out the hunting rifles to see what we could do with them. In high school we were head out rabbit hunting during the winter. When a rabbit jumped up we would let the shot gunner have the first chance, then the kids who were shooting the 22's. Then once the rabbit was out of range of the others a couple of us would use our deer/elk hunting rifles to get the job done.

But as I am getting older my shooting is slowing down. Before last years safari I headed down to the range and checked the zero on my .340 Weatherby off of the bench, all was well. Then a week before we left I pulled out the .25-06 and took close to 100 shots off the the sticks. While I was letting the barrel cool I would shoot my .340, but since I didn't have that much ammo for the 340 I limited myself to only 10 rounds, but that is also my limit when I am shooting it without the brake on the barrel.