Considering a O/U 12 bore game gun...but which one?

[BeeMaa]

After owning and shooting 2 Beretta 686's (matching 12 & 20 bore) both with 26" barrels, I sold them recently. The reason for selling them was simple, they didn't fit me well and it made shooting them not so much fun.

I have resigned myself to using my Benelli SBE2 on the clays range and for future bird work. For some reason this shotgun just fits me like a glove and breaks clays and kills everything. That being said, I still want to be one of the "cool kids" with an O/U. This also goes to the fact that I don't want to lob trash out of my ejection port on a hunt, then have to reach over and police it up.

So it would seem that I should be looking at the Benelli 686U right? After all it's a Benelli so it's awesome. Comes with shims to adjust drop and cast. Will perfectly match the dimensions of the SBE2 I have. And to top it off it take the exact same chokes as my SBE...bonus! So the deep dive began on the 686U.

My guns are tools, tools that get used and hunted with. They will get banged around a bit and need to be built accordingly. The 686U has a carbon fiber top rib that I've been told you might as well go ahead and order a spare...what? Next is the wood of the forend is rather thin and has been cracked/broken by several users during disassembly or putting it down in a truck bed...what the hell? The trigger design, while innovative and removable for cleaning, has been reported to drop out during use...WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL IS GOING ON?

OK, so the 686U has been taken off the table at the moment. What does this leave me in the way of getting a O/U that fits me properly for a price of $4K or less. I don't even know what to expect when looking at a custom stock, making stock alterations or the prices to expect. I live in Northern Virginia and have yet to find a competent shotgun gunsmith that I would trust with anything more than removable choke change. Wood grad above 4 is lost on me. I appreciate fine wood, but not on a game gun that I'm likely to beat up in the field.

I'd consider the Beretta 686 the entry level for my search. Durability, ubiquity along with the good looks and lines of a true game gun (without being obnoxious) are what I'm looking for. I'd also like screw in chokes and if they matched my SBE2 it would be a great. All thoughts and considerations are appreciated. Thank you for reading my Saturday morning rant.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Browning Citori, Browning Cynergy.

I like the handling of the 828U, but they are apparently nothing but headaches. My high volume shooting friends all love the Citori. I like the lines of the Cynergy, but I am an Aerospace Engineer….angles make it look fast, lol.

 

[BeeMaa]

Finding a place that has more than 10 shotguns (in store) that are in the class I’m looking at to try is a big issue as well.

I’ll take a look at the Browning offerings. Thanks @BourbonTrail.

 

[WAB]

It really depends how picky you are. The Citori action is one of the toughest ever manufactured. However Miroku (Browning) puts very heavy barrels on them for the NA market. It has a negative impact on handling. A number of years ago an entrepreneurial soul imported European browning 325’s. They had much lighter weight barrels, were Birmingham proofed if I recall correctly, and handled like wands. When i shot competitively, I purchased a Miroku 9000 from Bob Battaglia of Park Street Guns in St Albans, UK and had the stock bent to my fit. It is Birmingham proofed and is a joy to shoot. One caution, these lighter 12’s have 2 3/4” chambers. That and the corresponding proof is how they are able to lighten the barrels. Not something a big Corp can do in the USA with our litigious society.

If a proofed gun was not an option and I was buying a new O/U off the rack in the USA today it would be a Caesar Guerini.

 

[buckmarkhunter]

The benelli black eagle has a raised rib. The problem I had with shotguns is they will fit your body and look beautiful but the rib is standard or low. I had a benelli legacy and a browning sweet 16 that I loved looking at but the rib was just a dot on the barrel and couldn’t hit a barn door with. If you look at doubles might want to look at ones with a raised rib.

 

[Red Leg]

If you look at a double, OU or SxS, as a "tool," I probably can't help you. Rather like calling a flyrod a fishing pole.

Bear in mind, that you can spend as much as you want to, but if the gun doesn't fit, you won't like it and you won't shoot it well. Get the dimensions correct on a 686 and you will shoot it well; have them wrong on a Fabbri (what I think is the world's best OU) and you will learn to hate it.

I would sort out the exact measurements of that SBE2 - particularly LOP, drop, and cast (if any). I suspect that you will find that your 686 has a longer LOP and probably a bit less drop, but the tape will tell. Then find a good stock man to duplicate that (from the existing stock) on the 686 or your next gun. For instance, I have had several English gun stocks bent (Jack Rowe was a genius at it) to lower the drop slightly and virtually all trimmed slightly for LOP. I would also suggest having a look at Blaser OU's. They are extremely well respected, and have a more contemporary feel right out of the box than many.

I would not get too interested in ribs or sighting systems. If you are shooting a shotgun correctly, the target is in focus not the rib or the bead. That is another critical reason the gun should fit.

 

[Tanks]

I have been very happy with Caesar Guerini's with an adjustable comb. Their field guns are on their web site and have those that are in your price range. The light versions weigh 6 pounds.

Field Guns Archives - Caesar Guerini USA

gueriniusa.com

 

[BeeMaa]

@Red Leg - Because we already own Blaser rifles, I've been looking at the F3 and their entry model the F16. Some call the lines of these shotguns non-traditional, which is what I'd expect from Blaser as well as the people making the comments. Personally, I like the way they look. But then again I like the way the R8 looks too, so I guess take it for what it's worth. They also appear to be equal to the task of hunting, not just sitting around the clays range.

I was wondering if anyone else would mention Blaser without me bringing it up. As always, I appreciate your council. BTW - I fly fish as well.

 

[meigsbucks]

Browning Citori, Browning Cynergy.

I like the handling of the 828U, but they are apparently nothing but headaches. My high volume shooting friends all love the Citori. I like the lines of the Cynergy, but I am an Aerospace Engineer….angles make it look fast, lol.

I have the Cynergy and I love it. When I retired, I gave myself a shotgun as a gift. My price ceiling was $2500. The 828 was my second choice. It mostly came down to feel and fit. Several thousand rounds later, I haven’t regretted my choice.

 

[MMAL]

Another browning guy here. I actually use a 20 gauge Citori straight English stock as my upland Bird and clay gun. Still use the sbe original in 12 gauge for sea duck. Good luck with the search.

 

[Sabattiboy]

As a kid I was given a 1897 Winchester 12 gauge 30 inch full choke. I shot it well but it was a 1930's gun that was well worn. Dad always talked highly of the Browning A-5 designed by John Browning so I bought one. I managed to shoot it fair but being trained on a pump should have stayed with a pump. Brothers shot 870 Remington's and it would have been an easy transition to a hammerless pump over a case flinger. In later years I sold the A5 and eventually got an 870.
Find what works or what you like and have it fitted if need be.

 

[Red Leg]

@Red Leg - Because we already own Blaser rifles, I've been looking at the F3 and their entry model the F16. Some call the lines of these shotguns non-traditional, which is what I'd expect from Blaser as well as the people making the comments. Personally, I like the way they look. But then again I like the way the R8 looks too, so I guess take it for what it's worth. They also appear to be equal to the task of hunting, not just sitting around the clays range.

I was wondering if anyone else would mention Blaser without me bringing it up. As always, I appreciate your council. BTW - I fly fish as well.

If you do any true competitive clays shooting (as opposed to skeet or trap), you will see a lot F3’s (also in the pigeon ring). Like all Blaser products, the balance and ergonomics are superb. I would urge you to find one and get the feel of it before making a final decision.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

After owning and shooting 2 Beretta 686's (matching 12 & 20 bore) both with 26" barrels, I sold them recently. The reason for selling them was simple, they didn't fit me well and it made shooting them not so much fun.

I have resigned myself to using my Benelli SBE2 on the clays range and for future bird work. For some reason this shotgun just fits me like a glove and breaks clays and kills everything. That being said, I still want to be one of the "cool kids" with an O/U. This also goes to the fact that I don't want to lob trash out of my ejection port on a hunt, then have to reach over and police it up.

So it would seem that I should be looking at the Benelli 686U right? After all it's a Benelli so it's awesome. Comes with shims to adjust drop and cast. Will perfectly match the dimensions of the SBE2 I have. And to top it off it take the exact same chokes as my SBE...bonus! So the deep dive began on the 686U.

My guns are tools, tools that get used and hunted with. They will get banged around a bit and need to be built accordingly. The 686U has a carbon fiber top rib that I've been told you might as well go ahead and order a spare...what? Next is the wood of the forend is rather thin and has been cracked/broken by several users during disassembly or putting it down in a truck bed...what the hell? The trigger design, while innovative and removable for cleaning, has been reported to drop out during use...WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL IS GOING ON?

OK, so the 686U has been taken off the table at the moment. What does this leave me in the way of getting a O/U that fits me properly for a price of $4K or less. I don't even know what to expect when looking at a custom stock, making stock alterations or the prices to expect. I live in Northern Virginia and have yet to find a competent shotgun gunsmith that I would trust with anything more than removable choke change. Wood grad above 4 is lost on me. I appreciate fine wood, but not on a game gun that I'm likely to beat up in the field.

I'd consider the Beretta 686 the entry level for my search. Durability, ubiquity along with the good looks and lines of a true game gun (without being obnoxious) are what I'm looking for. I'd also like screw in chokes and if they matched my SBE2 it would be a great. All thoughts and considerations are appreciated. Thank you for reading my Saturday morning rant.

As we’re both Americans I have to ask: How hard is it to type bore instead of gauge?

 

[BeeMaa]

As we’re both Americans I have to ask: How hard is it to type bore instead of gauge?

I grew up with my Grandfather calling his Belgian Browning A5 his "16 bore". Everything shotgun to him was "bore". His doing so influenced me. I remember him fondly every time I say it or even type it. I've typed "gauge" on this website before and it never rang true to me. Even though it's what others in the US use most of the time and I understand their view. I've chosen to be true to one's self.

So to answer your question...more difficult than you would expect.

 

[Tbitty]

Another vote for Browning Citori group of offerings.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I know little to nothing about shotguns, but looking. What of Fausti, they seem to have it all and get good press?

 

[TroyF]

What citori would be best for a hunter, I'm not much into skeet or trap.
A lgs had a nice used 20ga with the 24" barrels for $ 800 last year think if I had the money I may have gotten it, 26" seems better for some reason to me.

 

[BeeMaa]

What citori would be best for a hunter, I'm not much into skeet or trap.
A lgs had a nice used 20ga with the 24" barrels for $ 800 last year think if I had the money I may have gotten it, 26" seems better for some reason to me.

For hunting upland birds, I prefer 26" barrels, but 28" would be OK if the balance and weight felt right. Shotguns have so much to do with feel, weight and how well they fit. As your experience and skill level rise, these things become more and more obvious, or at least they have to me.

I have a friend with a Browning Citori White Lightning, English stye stock 12 bore with 24" barrels. It's not very often a bird escapes his aim. I'd say shoot what feels best for you.

 

[TroyF]

For hunting upland birds, I prefer 26" barrels, but 28" would be OK if the balance and weight felt right. Shotguns have so much to do with feel, weight and how well they fit. As your experience and skill level rise, these things become more and more obvious, or at least they have to me.

I have a friend with a Browning Citori White Lightning, English stye stock 12 bore with 24" barrels. It's not very often a bird escapes his aim. I'd say shoot what feels best for you.

not many shops around me carry nicer shotguns so hard to get a feel of one. I'd like a lifetime gun one I can use for everything from early squirrel rabbits in winter to Turkey and duck if I ever find someone to go with. I'm looking a a Browning bps as well.

 

[Anthonyt42]

For the price, I have had incredible reliability and durability with the cz all terrain models. I hunt more than most people and throw in sporting clays often as well. Franchi has been good to me. Lots of people i know do the browning citori or other classics but when we go hunting they always say they prefer mine