Crimp for 375 H&H

[WestCo]

I have settled on using the 300g TSX in my rifle. Question is, do I need to put a crimp on it, and if so, should I make sure it is in one of the grooves? I have a Lee Crimp Die, and have read that it can be used even on bullets without a cannelure. Just wanted to see if anyone has crimped the TSX on the raised ring and had success, or if it is recommended to seat it to the point that the crimp will end up in one of the grooves on the TSX?

 

[BRICKBURN]

I had that little dilemma a few years ago.
The end result was the driving force behind the decision was solely the length I wanted for proper distance from the lands and fitting into the magazine.
Turned out the crimp would have fallen into one of the grooves. It would not hold the bullet so it was settled.

Results may vary and other more experienced folks may have some suggestions to solve you issue.

Good luck.

 

[bassasdaindia]

My first response would be what make of 375 h&h ?

 

[Alexandro Faria]

Can someone explain this to me? Even if it's just a pm cos I'd like to understand

 

[BRICKBURN]

See the difference

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I crimp for hunting bullets no matter the caliber. Shoving bullets deeper into the brass on the ones sitting in the magazine is not good. Accuracy can be affected as well as raising the pressure.

I've not used the TSX bullets greatly, but I set the length such that the crimp was at the front end of one of the grooves. Thus when the bullet hit mag box it had that front edge of the brass behind the copper directly in front of it holding it in place.

But....this requires trimming your brass to the same length. And the COAL may not be what is best for accuracy in your rifle. I think I'd make a call to Barnes and find out the skinny from them. My gut feel says you shouldn't have to crimp into a groove as the copper in their bullets I believe is softer than your normal gilding metal.

 

[sheephunterab]

In bolt guns I'm not really sure I see the point of crimping unless your magazine is particularly tight. As mono metals tend to like to be a ways off the lands the bullets tend to be seated fairly deeply eliminating recoil issues in most magazines. The 300gr mono metal is pretty long though so depending on your magazine I guess you could run into issues. Hard to say without seeing your set up. For what it's worth, I run uncrimped 250 grain GMX in my 375 without issue and they are pretty long at 3.876 COAL. Just curious why you chose the 300 grain TTSX over something lighter.

 

[WestCo]

My first response would be what make of 375 h&h ?

It is a Remington 721 that I had rebarreled

 

[WestCo]

In bolt guns I'm not really sure I see the point of crimping unless your magazine is particularly tight. As mono metals tend to like to be a ways off the lands the bullets tend to be seated fairly deeply eliminating recoil issues in most magazines. The 300gr mono metal is pretty long though so depending on your magazine I guess you could run into issues. Hard to say without seeing your set up. For what it's worth, I run uncrimped 250 grain GMX in my 375 without issue and they are pretty long at 3.876 COAL. Just curious why you chose the 300 grain TTSX over something lighter.

Chose the 300g for the fact that I'm planning on hunting a buffalo, and while I'm there I will be tagging along with a couple buddies during their leopard with hound hunts and from what I've been told, things can get a little hairy quick and even get into sticky situations with other dangerous game while in pursuit of the leopards.

 

[sheephunterab]

The big advantage of mono metals is weight retention, typically around 99% meaning you can downsize and still achieve adequate penetration. With the lighter bullet you get more speed which equals an increase in tissue damage in the permanent and temporary wound channels plus you increase your range and decrease your recoil. They both make the same size hole and energy means nothing other than penetration and that's where mono metals shine. When mono metals first came out they were in light for calibre weights but shooters more familiar with traditional cup and core bullets wouldn't use the lighter ones for a variety of misunderstood reasons so companies had to bring out heavier weights. If your gun will shoot lighter weight mono metals well, you are beating yourself up with recoil for no reason and possibly running into COAL issues.

 

[Alexandro Faria]

Thank you, got it! Turns out it's pretty straight forward… Apologies

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

In bolt guns I'm not really sure I see the point of crimping unless your magazine is particularly tight.

Actually I think tighter is better as the cartridges are more snugly fit in the magazine. If there's a big gap between the bullet tip and the front of the magazine, it gives that much more room/time for the rifle to gain speed before it smacks the bullet tip. Kind of the same concept for why you want to hold your rifle firm against your shoulder when shoot it.

I used to scoff a bit at this, but then did my own experiment with crimped and not crimped, no doubt cartridges not crimped got shorter.

 

[sheephunterab]

I've measured mine many times and they've never moved a thousand of an inch but no question that some magazines may be prone to it. I'm not sure I buy your logic about the rifle gaining speed before it smacks the tip. And your analogy of holding the rifle away from your shoulder. It's not like your cartridges in the magazine stay stationary while the rifle goes through recoil. Everything should move together at equal speed. It's not like the cartridges are sitting loose in the magazine or at least they shouldn't be. I guess if recoil was impeded by a weighted rifle rest or something there could be some significant movement but I don't see it under normal recoil situations and in that case the cartridges would slide rearward. Again, I'm sure there is the odd rifle that's an exception but I doubts it's common.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

The cartridges aren't held that tight by the follower so that they can slide between each other or the follower and the rails. Thus under recoil they essentially move forward although it's really the rifle moving backwards faster than the bullets. This stops once the bullets come in contact with the front wall if you will of the magazine.

The closest analogy I can come to is if you're sitting in a car that's at a stop that then accelerates hard. If you're seated back in the chair you'll still feel the increase of pressure of your body against the seat under the acceleration. But if you're leaned forward you're head will smack harder against the headrest.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Having said tall of that, every rifle and every load will be unique. Between the tension of the magazine spring, friction between loads, friction against the rails and neck tension on the bullets, results will vary considerably.

 

[sheephunterab]

The closest analogy I can come to is if you're sitting in a car that's at a stop that then accelerates hard. If you're seated back in the chair you'll still feel the increase of pressure of your body against the seat under the acceleration. But if you're leaned forward you're head will smack harder against the headrest.

Only because your head is permitted to move freely. Cartridges are held in place. I agree in some mags there is a possibility of movement but you can't compare it to anything that is unrestrained, like your head in a car.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Cartridges are held in place. I agree in some mags there is a possibility of movement but you can't compare it to anything that is unrestrained, like your head in a car.

No they're not, that's the problem. The cartridges are only somewhat restrained depending on greatly the tension of the mag spring. This tension is of course forcing them up against each other and of course the top round against the bottom of the feed rails. Worst case scenario is when there is only one round in the magazine. The tension of the spring is the least at this point as its only slightly compressed.

In the end the rounds can still slip forward and backwards and under the sharp recoil of a rifle they most certainly do.

Only making the analogy that if your head is back against the seat rest its restrained from rearward movement. The further away from the rest the more distance there is for your head to pick up speed and smack that much harder.

 

[Shootist43]

A lot of the crimp vs no crimp issue depends to a great extent on your sizing die. If your die and reloading technique result in sufficient neck tension there is no need to crimp on most bolt action rifles. The exceptions being the "heavy hitters" and semi-automatic rifles. There is no need to crimp ammo used in single shot rifles.

 

[bassasdaindia]

I crimp for hunting bullets no matter the caliber. Shoving bullets deeper into the brass on the ones sitting in the magazine is not good. Accuracy can be affected as well as raising the pressure.

I've not used the TSX bullets greatly, but I set the length such that the crimp was at the front end of one of the grooves. Thus when the bullet hit mag box it had that front edge of the brass behind the copper directly in front of it holding it in place.

But....this requires trimming your brass to the same length. And the COAL may not be what is best for accuracy in your rifle. I think I'd make a call to Barnes and find out the skinny from them. My gut feel says you shouldn't have to crimp into a groove as the copper in their bullets I believe is softer than your normal gilding metal.

That is the reason why I aske what make of rifle , CZ has a very large ammo box , which fits various calibers like 416's and upwards , the 375 bullets move too much in the ammo box and need to be crimped.

I have made a plate that fits into the ammo box which reduces the movement inside.

 

[Neale]

Westco,
You cannot crimp unless there is a cannelure or groove to fold the case neck into. Smooth sided projectiles are held in place by friction. Crimping into the cannelure or groove will hold your projectile at that AOL without the projectile being forced into the case if left in the magazine for successive shots. If neck tension is high and recoil low than crimping is not necessary.
To answer your original question. You can only crimp into a groove.