CZ550 Safari Mag in 458 Lott feeding test

[TokkieM]

The result after some serious gunsmithing and testing.

 

[Royal27]

Yup, you've got that feeding nicely!

 

[matt85]

nice, i can tell you put some real work into the feed ramp.

-matt

 

[TokkieM]

Thanks guys, after much thought and more experiance I sold the Lott and bought a double Krieghoff in 470NE. As far as modifications go the CZ needed to have the feed ramp completely reworked, it was a mess from factory, the left feed rail was opened up and the extractor claw re shaped and extractor re-tensioned. Several range trips later we still had a problem with the solids feeding so we took the sharp edge off the back of the chamber, that sorted the feeding issue with all types of ammo including 458Win, the 458 Win was still prone to moving under recoil in the mag. As mentioned in another post it takes a lot of work to polish the action up these days, we also swithched out the CZ extractor coller with a standard Mauser 98 one, its a straight swap and makes a big differance in operation. Besides the feeding issue the only other problem was knocking the safety on when working the bolt fast and hard, bending the bolt handle away slightly sorted that problem. Sure the new owner will have a lifetime of joy with it, always the first owner of most things that has the problems. Would never advise anyone to take any new rifle on a Safari unless they have really run it hard a few times. Just a pity the CZ in Lott is prone to having issues from factory.

 

[richteb]

Not, restricted to CZ, I had to do pretty much the same to my Ruger in 416 ruger before it would feed reliably.

 

[matt85]

I just tried this with my brand new Winchester M70 in 416 RM. other then being a tad sticky (it is brand new) it cycles quickly and without issue. I think both CZ and Ruger need to take a note from Winchester when it comes to the quality of their actions.

on that note, Winchester needs to take a note from CZ about the wood used for stocks and the quality of checkering. my new Winchesters checkering looks like it was done with a dull tool and frankly looks very poorly done (it does have a decent grip though). the stock also came with a small crack on the left side of the nose... while this looks to be apart of the wood and not damage, it still should not have made it past quality control.

these guns are all about the same price $1100.00 +/- $100 and they all seem to have issues with their QC. if someone was smart they would build a rifle for maybe $100-$200 more and use that extra money to pay for better QC. who ever did this would literally own the market on African hunting rifles.

-matt

 

[richteb]

Matt
Got to agree, I think most gun manufacturers have come to rely on cnc machining too much and are less concerned with quality and more concerned with profit. I don't believe that the overall cost of a rifle would go up that much more should it go through a more stringent quality control process.

I have come to believe that a dg rifle (or more appropriately a rifle for dg) is a work in progress. Even though most of us will always hunt with a experienced and qualified PH (hopefully) when it comes to dg (at least in Africa) the rifle you use may need to save your life and therefore must be 100% reliable (they all work well for the first shot) on the second and subsequent shots. I have also come to realise that to get to this stage requires time and continuous use of the gun under field conditions to ensure all the gremlins are found and solved.

As the video in hunthardsafaris shows that a fair amount of gunsmithing went into his CZ to make it work, however the next step for me would be to take the gun out and shoot the proverbial S...t out of it to confirm the reliability. We all know what can happen in the heat of the moment.

 

[TokkieM]

As the video in hunthardsafaris shows that a fair amount of gunsmithing went into his CZ to make it work, however the next step for me would be to take the gun out and shoot the proverbial S...t out of it to confirm the reliability. We all know what can happen in the heat of the moment.

I will try upload the shooting test today, as you rightly say,shoot it until it smokes! I try and simulate a hunting situation, get my heart beat up a bit and shoot against time.Sometimes just the way you operate the bolt will highlight a issues with the rifle.

 

[matt85]

Sometimes just the way you operate the bolt will highlight a issues with the rifle.

there is a lot of wisdom in this statement. in my recent 505 Gibbs purchase, at least 2 people operated the rifle before it came to me and the action worked fine for both of them. when I had it in my hands and operated the action from a couple of different holds I found in certain holds the action would bind up. these kinds of issues can only be found by working the action from many different positions.

-matt

 

[richteb]

In fact my Ruger still has a issue, in that if you load the magazine with 3 rounds and then close the bolt on a empty chamber, when I attempt to load in a slow and as quite way as possible the bolt face will not pick up a round. If I do the same thing more aggressively it works fine. Funny thing is that when I was practising for my safari I would load 3 in the mag plus 1 in the chamber so this issue never showed up. So what I thought was a 100% reliable gun is not so much. As they say the devil is in the detail.

 

[TokkieM]

I purposely try and jam the rifle durring testing, I push the bolt in every direction I can as hard as possible, left,right,up and down, sonetimes even hold it upside down. What works well too is what I like to call a "bump test" I leave the bolt open and just slam the bolt handle with the palm of my hand, it is not a push action, rather a hit and retract action with the palm of my hand, almost like a fast left jab What it does is just force the bolt to pick up a round and push it into the chamber, or as with the CZ jam it in the action.

 

[TokkieM]

Managed to knock the safety on when loading the first shot, back to the gunsmith to bend the bolt handle out slightly, problem solved.

 

[TokkieM]

The final test

 

[matt85]

What works well too is what I like to call a "bump test" I leave the bolt open and just slam the bolt handle with the palm of my hand, it is not a push action, rather a hit and retract action with the palm of my hand, almost like a fast left jab What it does is just force the bolt to pick up a round and push it into the chamber, or as with the CZ jam it in the action.

I just tried this test with my M70 and at first it failed... scared the hell outa me. then I realized I was trying with freshly converted 375 H&H brass and it wasn't fire formed yet . so I opened a box of Hornady 416 RM and gave that a shot. when the bolt was struck it didn't exactly close smoothly but it did close.

this is a great test because in the event of a charge you aren't exactly going to be gentle with the action and you need to know it will work!

note: love the lion!

-matt

 

[TokkieM]

Thanks matt85! Glad you found something helpfull. I would also suggest finding a bullet with the worst reputation for feeding, normally a solid with a very flat nose and test your rifle with that. Round and sharp nose bullets can be forced into the chamber,blunt nose bullets cant. I use Norma African PH ammo when I hunt, the coating on the case makes them feed and extract very smoothly. You can aslo leave the rifle dirty inbetween range sessions, some problems seem to creep in after fireing 40-60 rounds with fouling.

 

[Royal27]

these guns are all about the same price $1100.00 +/- $100 and they all seem to have issues with their QC. if someone was smart they would build a rifle for maybe $100-$200 more and use that extra money to pay for better QC. who ever did this would literally own the market on African hunting rifles.

Got to agree, I think most gun manufacturers have come to rely on cnc machining too much and are less concerned with quality and more concerned with profit. I don't believe that the overall cost of a rifle would go up that much more should it go through a more stringent quality control process.

although I agree with your overall statements and wish QC was better let's remember that for these large manufacturers it IS all about profit. This is frustrating for sure, but it is fact. If they wanted to are the perfect rifle they would be in the custom business.

I promise you that they all have a bean counter who looks at the number of guns that come back and what that costs vs. what it would cost to better QC and make sure those guns never came back. Those "few dollars more" would likely either eat up their per unit profit, or lose the sale to another cheaper manufacturer with lower QC. Not all buyers are as discerning as we are.

Due to this, I'm personally grudgingly ok with the poor QC as long as I know they will fix it correctly when I send it back. If I wasnt, I would buy custom rifles as that is my other option (and one that I can't affors, not and still hunt how I want to).

 

[TokkieM]

Cant agree more, cost vs profit is always going to be the issue. Cant speak for Winchester but the CZ is a cast action, it has very few upgrades since the ZKK action was first buildt to its current 550 action, main diffrance is in the trigger assembly and mounting. Their cast mold is getting pretty old and it can be seen in the rough edges and not so sharp lines in and outside the action. What was a standard polish procedure years ago just does not cut it anylonger.
One main advantage the M70 has as far as feeding is concerned is that Winchester coned the breach, this helps the bullet slide into the chamber, CZ has a flat chamber entrance making feeding straight down the centre more critical.

 

[matt85]

it just doesnt seem like a costly venture to at least make sure they feed reliably. ugly checkering, ugly wood, and even ugly finish is fine (and fixable) as long as the action is servicable. nothing else matters if the gun doesnt feed/shoot right.


-matt

 

[Kano]

Managed to knock the safety on when loading the first shot, back to the gunsmith to bend the bolt handle out slightly, problem solved.

On the CZ 550, for a DG rifle you should modify the notches on the safety piece, so that if by accident you knock the safety on, it goes back to "Fire" by itself when you close the bolt. As it comes from the factory, when the safety is on, it stays on when you close the bolt.

It's quite easy to do, but care must be taken to remove the right amount of metal at the right places...

This is the stock safety

This one has been modified. As it is here, when the bolt closes and pushes on the bolt locking piece (up right in the picture), the spring roller passes beyond the hump between the two notches, and puts the safety off.

 

[TokkieM]

Thanks for the tip Kano