DG Rifle Balance

[MediumMadness]

Any info on DG rifle balance appreciated. This is a Model 70 in 375 Holland. It's factory stock, and I'm going to be fixing it up with the usual fixes and enhancements. Being a trap shooter, I appreciate the balance of a trap gun. So now I'd like to know what riflemen think about this topic, particularly what's the ideal balance for a DG rifle.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[DOC-404]

You would need to see a rifle maker, not just the village 'smithy, and have your rifle adjusted to fit YOU. A rifle fitted for you will not fit me. He will advise on changes to your length of pull, pistol grip, palm swell, fore-end or shortening of the barrel to suit you and how you bring the rifle to bear. Not as good as a custom built rifle, but a factory rifle can be made better with a little work. I know this because I've done it myself. Let him make small adjustments at a time until you feel it's good.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

MediumMadness, Excuse me if I misunderstood you,
You're final sentence confuses me a bit. You ask, what is the ideal balance for a DG rifle? Do you mean balance or weight? Balance is the reluctance of the rifle to fall forward when you shoulder the rifle. This comes down to every shooter's preference. I enjoy my bigger rifles to "pivot" where my left hand holds the stock in front. DG rifles will be front heavy, due to the thicker barrel. I found fitting a mercury tube inside the rear of the stock, balances the rifle almost perfectly.

 

[MediumMadness]

I meant balance. I like what you said about a reducer in the stock to change the pivot point.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

MM,

I'm glad you brought this subject up. I don't know if it's because you've noticed the M70 to be heavy at the front end or not. I know that's how mine feels especially in comparison to my CZ. Is this a bad thing or a good thing? I appreciate a properly balanced shotgun but that's a different game. A more forward weighted DG caliber gun has it's pros and cons. The pro being that it will help reduce recoil by keeping the muzzle down and allowing you to get back on target just a bit quicker if a follow up is needed. But if that follow up is needed, the more balanced towards center gun is going to be a bit easier to swing for that moving shot.

Which is better? I haven't a clue. At the range when I'm trying to pull as many shots as quickly as possible on a stationary target, I can do so more quickly with my M70 than I can with my CZ. But then my CZ is a .416 Rigby and it's hard to make the comparison to a .375H&H.

 

[DOC-404]

Is what I said. Adding mercury, changing l.o.p or taking 2 or 3 inches off a barrel will all change the pivot point and balance of a rifle. That's why owners of custom built rifles go for 'fitting' sessions. Which is better..can't answer that, Phil. To me, a rifle either 'feels' good or it does'nt.

 

[MediumMadness]

PP,

I don't have enough experience with rifles in field positions with repeating shots to comment on forward weight for minimizing muzzle rise on recoil. But in Trap, the recoil impulse is more straight back with the least amount of drop at heel, since the heel is part of the pivot point of the recoil vector. So if your shoulder is vertically closer to the bore, the recoil impuse is more straight back, thus less muzzle rise. I also find trap guns to be more enjoyable and shoot better if the weight is more or less evenly distributed, though some shooters like a little balance forward, but I know none who like more weight in the back. So perhaps it's the same with DG hunters, some like it one way, some the other. I don't know for sure, this is my first heavy rifle.

Regarding your CZ Rigby and your M70 Holland, that sounds like an absolutely perfect combo, very nice.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

PP,

I don't have enough experience with rifles in field positions with repeating shots to comment on forward weight for minimizing muzzle rise on recoil. But in Trap, the recoil impulse is more straight back with the least amount of drop at heel, since the heel is part of the pivot point of the recoil vector. So if your shoulder is vertically closer to the bore, the recoil impuse is more straight back, thus less muzzle rise. I also find trap guns to be more enjoyable and shoot better if the weight is more or less evenly distributed, though some shooters like a little balance forward, but I know none who like more weight in the back. So perhaps it's the same with DG hunters, some like it one way, some the other. I don't know for sure, this is my first heavy rifle.

Regarding your CZ Rigby and your M70 Holland, that sounds like an absolutely perfect combo, very nice.

I'd agree with you on the stocks. Hogbacks sure look pretty on rifles in my opinion, but I have no desire to shoot one in a bigger caliber.

I like my caliber choices too, but I'll tell you the jump to a .375H&H is more of a little hop compared with the jump to the .416 Rigby.

 

[MediumMadness]

PP, I've heard that too. The only other rifle bigger than 375 I've ever shot was a 458 WinMag, with a 500 gr solid. Now that boy kicked. I can only imagine the punishment dealt out by the Lott or the big Weatherby. Somtime I should compare the free recoil between the Win and a Rigby, just for fun of course.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

My advice for you is get your DG rifle to be balanced the same way as you like your trap gun.

We are all different to how we like a gun to be balanced.
I prefer the guns I use for shooting standing with and without support and for moving targets to be slightly front heavy.

 

[spike.t]

i like my rifles to have their centre of balance between where my hands grip it.this allows you to swing the rifle quickly as you are pivoting it round its centre point, and you arent fighting a heavy barrel or stock if its heavy to the rear.as Docman says, it feels right or it doesnt, and if it feels right and you can buy it as that doesnt happen too often.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

i like my rifles to have their centre of balance between where my hands grip it.this allows you to swing the rifle quickly as you are pivoting it round its centre point, and you arent fighting a heavy barrel or stock if its heavy to the rear.as Docman says, it feels right or it doesnt, and if it feels right and you can buy it as that doesnt happen too often.

Docman and spike.t are right.
It feels right or it doesn't.

And if it feels right, never sell it as you will regret selling it forever.

On the top of my head I can't remember how many guns that I have bought and then sold again because they didn't give me the right feeling when using them.
But it has been very many in lots of different cartridges.
They felt good when handling them at the gun shop and even the first times on the shooting range, but after more time at the shooting range, and specially after some hunting, something was wrong or missing with so many of them.

And the decision to sell or keep a gun has never had anything to do with how the gun looks like and in most cases nothing to do with what cartridge it was.
They just haven't given me the feeling of a perfect fit to me.

I have sold guns to friends that they could not understand at all why I sold them to them and even for a great price for them.
But it is nice to know that their favorite gun is a gun I have owned and sold to them
Many of the guns look great and all are very accurate.

The not so accurate guns I have sold, I sold to people I didn't know