Discontinued Powders?

[Earle]

Going thru the bag of goodies i received, along with the recent purchase of a 7x64 CZ, were 4x1 jugs of AA3100 powder. Seems it was discontinued quite a while ago. Anyone know what it would be a good replacement for? Just getting started in the reloading hobby and unsure how to proceed.

 

[fourfive8]

According to info in older AA load booklets, it is a single base extruded powder that is similar to 4831. Makes sense because it was with the 7x64. There is load data for using AA3100 in the 7x64 in the Lee manual.

 

[Earle]

Thanks for the tip. Do you know what edition the data is in? I have the 2nd edition of Lee's Modern Reloading, along with several other manuals and the Hornady manual is the only one listing the 7x64. The others all suggest 280R data be reduced and used. I'm new to reloading and prefer to stick to specific data, rather than experiment. Never realized the 7x64 had so little support.

According to info in older AA load booklets, it is a single base extruded powder that is similar to 4831. Makes sense because it was with the 7x64. There is load data for using AA3100 in the 7x64 in the Lee manual.

 

[shootist~]

Possibly an old wives tale, but my understanding is old powder can go bad. Smell it and see if it seems normal, (not rank).] Its probably fine, but caution is always a good thing.

A Google search for AA 3100 Load Data lead to possible sources for old reload manuals, btw.

 

[fourfive8]

Good point, but unless that AA powder was stored in bad conditions like extreme heat, it should be fine. AA powders of that era aren’t that old relatively speaking. If it smells like ether it’s fine. If it smells like old vinegar and has reddish dust, it is starting to deteriorate. Unlike nitro glycerine settling out of sawdust in a stick of dynamite, it doesn’t get more dangerous- if anything, the chemical energy simply decreases. Plus it doesn’t have any nitro glycerine in it anyway- being a single base powder. Simple nitro cellulose

I’ll take a pic of the 7x64 data page(s) in one of the AA booklets and post it today.

 

[Earle]

That would be great. Many thanks

Good point, but unless that AA powder was stored in bad conditions like extreme heat, it should be fine. AA powders of that era aren’t that old relatively speaking. If it smells like ether it’s fine. If it smells like old vinegar and has reddish dust, it is starting to deteriorate. Unlike nitro glycerine settling out of sawdust in a stick of dynamite, it doesn’t get more dangerous- if anything, the chemical energy simply decreases. Plus it doesn’t have any nitro glycerine in it anyway- being a single base powder. Simple nitro cellulose

I’ll take a pic of the 7x64 data page(s) in one of the AA booklets and post it today.

 

[krish]

Old barnes reloading manual lists it for wby cartridges
I will look at my older manuals and let know.
I still have that powder unopened.. must have bought it for some reason can't remember. That is 35 years ago.
Krish.

 

[Earle]

Any and all info much appreciated. With powder so hard to source right now, it will be nice to know what the aa3100 can replace.

 

[sestoppelman]

3100 was good stuff, sad they quit making it. Its about like IMR4831 and R19, same appr burn rate.

 

[fourfive8]

Here's some data and info. The design/specs of the 7x64 is nearly identical to the 280 Remington so the load data will be nearly identical. How it's used may depend on the strength of the action and specs of the chamber/throat of the rifle in which it's fired.

The Lee loading manual has the only hard data I've found for the 7x64. It is simply reduced 280 Remington data with AA 3100 powder. Here are the pics of the Lee data for the 7x64 followed by some info on AA 3100 and load data for the 280 Remington in the 2005 AA data pamphlet, the latest I have. Judging by what Lee did in listing the 7x64 data, I would reduce any 280 Remington data by 5%-10% and start there.

 

[Earle]

Got it and thank you. Now i have a starting point for the 7x64.

 

[7x57Joe]

I am down to about 6 pounds and use it a lot in my 7x64, 7x57, and .30'06. My lot is slightly slower than H-4831 so there is no way I can get too much in '06 size cases. A case full and a heavier bullet usually is accurate.

 

[Earle]

Nother question. Going to try the 140g Trophy Bonded bullets. Got 200 of them. If subbing the AA3100 for the IMR 4831, should i still go 5% less than the listed starting load for the 280r. (46.3g) and work up? That would be 43.9g. Mightn't that be to light for a 7x64?

 

[krish]

Some more info.

 

[fourfive8]

Nother question. Going to try the 140g Trophy Bonded bullets. Got 200 of them. If subbing the AA3100 for the IMR 4831, should i still go 5% less than the listed starting load for the 280r. (46.3g) and work up? That would be 43.9g. Mightn't that be to light for a 7x64?

For the 7x64, the Lee data shows 140 gr start load at 48.7 AA 3100 and max at 54.1 gr That tracks exactly with their own rule of 280 Remington data minus 5%. BTW the 280 Remington data for 140 gr AA 3100 loads in the Speer manual is very similar to the Lee data. All a good sign as the data tracks nicely across both labs.

 

[shootist~]

All of my manuals that listed AA 3100 in the 280 Remington did so with heavier bullets. Mostly 168 to 175 gr.

The lightest I see is with 154 grain bullets in the Hornady 7th Edition.

 

[TNDave]

Nother question. Going to try the 140g Trophy Bonded bullets. Got 200 of them. If subbing the AA3100 for the IMR 4831, should i still go 5% less than the listed starting load for the 280r. (46.3g) and work up? That would be 43.9g. Mightn't that be to light for a 7x64?

Could run it through Quick Load if you’d like. Shoot me a pm with info you want and be glad to run it for you.

 

[Ray B]

I always figured they named it 3100 because it was easy to get 3100 fps in a 300 Weatherby with a 180 grain bullet. As noted it split the difference between the 4831s.

 

[bruce moulds]

does anyone any case capacity figures for the 7x64 and the 280 rem?
going on what is written here it looks like the 280 might hold a little more powder, or they load the 7x64 to lower pressures.
bruce.

 

[fourfive8]

The case capacity of the 7x64 is listed as 4.36cc and the case capacity of the 280 Rem is listed as 4.39cc.