Do the 577 and 600 nitro really offer anything?

[mickb]

fellas I have often wondered if the two biggest elephant guns of the smokeless era offeered anything or whether they were again more marketing for the safari crowd who A wanted the biggest and B, weere used to calibres so large like 10, 8 and 4 bores they felt a 577 and 600 in a smokeless guise would be a gfreat seller, or maybe just a psychologival benefit.

Obviously shooting thick skinned game you arent trying to shock the animal to death but I have always wondered if the 577 and 600 nitro with their actual velocities probably down to 1850-1900fps impact are actually better or worse killers/penetrators/shockers/stoppers than a fast loaded 500 or 458 cal?

 

[Certus]

.577 > 600.
.500 better still.

This in regards to when considering rifle weight, penetration, performance.

The .600 was the .700 of its day

 

[AimSmall]

Doesn't Jeff Rahn carry a 577?

Not likely just because it weighs more...

 

[BeeMaa]

They both offer the ultimate in a stopping rifle to those who are able to master the recoil.

For a traveling client hunter there are better caliber options at or below the 1/2 inch mark that keep cost and recoil down.

 

[matt85]

The 577 NE was one of the first NE cartridges. The other cartridges simply didn't exist when it hit the market. It was a major improvement over the other common DG cartridges at the time.

The 600 NE was made later, for big bore junkies... Like me.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

The 577 NE is the stopping caliber that all others are judged against. Cutting Edge has an interesting 650 grain solid that I’m going to be working up some loads on later this year.

HH

 

[cajunchefray]

The 577 NE is the stopping caliber that all others are judged against. Cutting Edge has an interesting 650 grain solid that I’m going to be working up some loads on later this year.

HH

Good question. I am interested in hearing real world examples of the .577 Nitro against elephant and buffalo..

 

[matt85]

Good question. I am interested in hearing real world examples of the .577 Nitro against elephant and buffalo..

It was incredibly popular during the age of professional ivory hunting! A simple Google search will yield volumes of reports on this old cartridges performance.

 

[grand veneur]

fellas I have often wondered if the two biggest elephant guns of the smokeless era offeered anything or whether they were again more marketing for the safari crowd who A wanted the biggest and B, weere used to calibres so large like 10, 8 and 4 bores they felt a 577 and 600 in a smokeless guise would be a gfreat seller, or maybe just a psychologival benefit.

Obviously shooting thick skinned game you arent trying to shock the animal to death but I have always wondered if the 577 and 600 nitro with their actual velocities probably down to 1850-1900fps impact are actually better or worse killers/penetrators/shockers/stoppers than a fast loaded 500 or 458 cal?

This question should have been asked of the user before the WWI. After all, the DR caliber 577 Nitro Express were the rifles most used by professionals for elephant hunting. I think that this rifle has proven itself and has provided clear advantages in terms of penetration and stopping power, better in all cases compared to the older BP rifles caliber 577, 8 or 4. There were no bolt action rifles caliber 458 at that time, but when the different medium big bore cartridges came onto the market, It appears that some of these DR caliber 577 Nitro Express were placed on the shelves in favor of bolt action rifles caliber 404 Jeffery, 425 Westley Richards or 416 Rigby. Somehow these rifles must have had some advantages compared to the heavy, not always so handy DR caliber 577 Nitro Express.

I think that we can therefore exclude a commercial background for the emergence of the DR caliber 577 Nitro Express. As far the DR caliber 600 Nitro Express is concerned, it was perhaps different and that could rather have been a commercial attempt than anything else. Hardly any or even no professional hunter has exchanged his DR caliber 577 Nitro Express for one caliber 600 Nitro Express, on the contrary, a lack of deep penetration of the bullet of this cartridge has been reported several times. According to the old reports, the DR caliber 600 Nitro Express could only be found in the hands of no-professional hunters or other adventurers.

After hundred years of experience we can say that bolt action rifles caliber 458 or 510 have a clear advantage over big bore DR caliber 577 Nitro Express or 600 Nitro Express. Nevertheless, these two rifles still have an aura and many dream of hunting with these. That's why various companies started producing weapons again, although things seem to have calmed down. DR caliber 577 Nitro Express or 600 Nitro Express are heavy, not handy and have a very strong recoil. Such rifles hardly have a place in our current concept of big game hunting. I speak from experience, both are in my gun-safe, but I am still thinking about how and for what to use these.

 

[PCC600]

I do not think a 577 NE ( 750 grain bullet travelling at 2050 fps ) is superior to a 600 NE in modern configuration with a 900 grain bullet at 2050 fps . The problem with older 600s were they were regulated for mainly 100 grains of cordite which drove a bullet at 1850fps and delivered only average penetration . A number were regulated for 1950 fps using 110 grains of cordite . The 2050 fps performance came from 120 grains of cordite . Only one or two rifles were loaded for the full load before WW2 . I think a lot more deliver this performance now . I have shot many 577s and my vote goes to my 600 with loads delivering 2050 fps . The best big calibre in a double I have ever seen was a 577 Rewa ( necked down 600 case ) shot a 750 grain pill at 2250 fps .
I do agree that the 577 and 600 are now functionally useless . Hunting has changed with many guns ready to shoot - but in the old days the hunter was on his own and the super bore rifles like the 577 and 600 were the ne plus ultra of rifles .

 

[GuttormG]

Nostalgia and history.

 

[HankBuck]

fellas I have often wondered if the two biggest elephant guns of the smokeless era offeered anything or whether they were again more marketing for the safari crowd who A wanted the biggest and B, weere used to calibres so large like 10, 8 and 4 bores they felt a 577 and 600 in a smokeless guise would be a gfreat seller, or maybe just a psychologival benefit.

Obviously shooting thick skinned game you arent trying to shock the animal to death but I have always wondered if the 577 and 600 nitro with their actual velocities probably down to 1850-1900fps impact are actually better or worse killers/penetrators/shockers/stoppers than a fast loaded 500 or 458 cal?

Carry a .600 NE and avoid every being mistaken for a Woman

 

[Luvthunt]

If one has read Arino and seen his chart on rifles used by ele hunters who were hunting on a professional basis from 1900 to 1950 the chart shows 1-600 9 577 and 7 500s.

 

[IvW]

500 Jeff the ultimate, followed by 505 Gibbs and the 500 NE......577 and 600 are all recoil and less penetration than the first 3......right bullet and straight line penetration being the answer for Eleohant hunting ir sorting the shit out on wounded buff and lion....the domain of these cartridges.....

 

[IvW]

Nostalgia and history.

Correct

 

[steve white]

Under the most trying circumstances, they could offer you the privilege of going on living....

 

[IvW]

Under the most trying circumstances, they could offer you the privilege of going on living....

.500 yes above no......welcome to reality

 

[Philip Glass]

Doesn't Jeff Rahn carry a 577?

Not likely just because it weighs more...

And Alain Smith

 

[Philip Glass]

From a client perspective I think the .470 is hard to beat and bigger will likely not be more effective. From a PH perspective bigger might have some merit.
I must say that it is amazing and satisfying to take down a large animal at close range with a double. My .470 and now the .450/400 have both proven to put stuff down in their tracks. It will be interesting as I go forward with the .450/400 as to what differences I see versus .470. To date I just have one buffalo and one hippo with the smaller 400g bullet.

 

[Pondoro]

I think the reputation for inadequate penetration for the .600 is caused by the bum bullets loaded by Kynoch after WW2, some flattened on ele skulls..

I would take a .600 double loaded with a 900 grain Woodleigh/Dzombo or similar and to the 110 cordite velocity any day for elephant hunting.. I find the recoil from a .600 double with this load easier to shoot than .500 Jeffery, wich is also a very good elephant round..