Double rifle or bolt action?

[Buck0317]

I just recently completed my first bufffalo hunt in South Africa with my 416 Rem Mag (Remington 700) and man do I want a double rifle now! The problem is money... I'm looking on the lower price spectrum for double rifles and even a Sabatti in 416 Rigby is $7000+ and I can find an importer who will place the order. My question is this, knowing I'm not made of money should I try to find a lower price double rifle or just save the money and hunt with my 416 Rem? Perhaps someone on this forum has a line on more affordable double rifles?

 

[Graham Hunter]

Here my . 01c. I'm Canadian! I struggled for years over buying a Double. I had the funds but it just seemed like a lot to put in one rifle. If I had unlimited funds I would have probably purchased one. I also use a 416 Rem in a Win 70 that I am totally happy with. I would have purchased a Double for 3 reasons 1. For the quick second shot. 2. Because they are the iconic Classic African DG rifle. 3. For the Prestige as very few own DG Doubles. But reality kept hitting me in the face. If I owned a Double I would shoot maybe 2 or 3 Buffs, maybe an Elephant, and maybe a Hippo. So the dollar difference with my 416 I can go on 1 or 2 really good Safaris and add to my trophy collection. My 416 will work for any animals and although I may not be as quick with my second shot I would still have a 3rd and 4th shot. 2 shots with the double and you're done. As I would always be hunting with a PH I would hope his assistance would aid in a bad situation. And I will get a lot more use from the 416 back here where i hunt.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Better to get another bolt action rifle, than a lower priced double rifle. Unfortunately, with double rifles… You get exactly what you pay for. Lower priced double rifles are plagued with all sorts of issues (poor barrel regulation, ejectors failing, prematurely going off-face). Sabatti double rifles are notoriously plagued with different issues. Unless of course, if you manage to get a good steal from the secondhand market. But those chances are few and far between.

What’s your budget for a double rifle ? Maybe, I might be able to help.

Good hunting. I strongly recommend you to have your Remington Model 700 fitted with an M16 extractor. It makes cartridge extraction far more reliable, especially in the hot African climate.

Remington Model 700s are good, accurate rifles. Her’s my son-in-law’s one in .375 Holland & Holland Magnum.

 

[steve white]

One of each, please.

 

[Rubberhead]

If you put $7,000 in municipal bonds, you'd get 5%-6% tax-free dividends each year and after 10 years, you'd get your $7,000 back.

If you put $7,000 in a double rifle, you'd get tax free dividends in the form of fun, satisfaction, and making personal history and after 10 years, you'd still have gun worth $7,000 or, likely, more.

 

[Rubberhead]

And, oh, just remember that your eyesight won't be as good 10 years from now so plan for some sort of red dot or other optic...

 

[Inline6]

You are not out of the realm of a decent double. You will be more or less looking at the used market in the Merkel, Blaser S2, Rozzini (10k+), then you start getting into 14k+ chapuis, then Heym (used starts depending on the model)

How accurate do you expect your rifle to be? For myself, dependability, accuracy, looks. For those reasons I do not own a double. I still want one, I just can have the most expensive rifle in my safe be one of my least accurate.

That is my personal preference, doesn't mean it applies to anyone else. Shoot a 2"×2" group @ 50 yards with a double is money for any animal you would hunt with it. If you want it, take a hard look at your gun safe and see what you don't use. If you don't use it, move it on so that you can purchase a double you will treasure.

One word of caution, plan on sending in you double if you purchase it used to a good smith (like JJ Perodeau or Ken Owens). Need to make sure they are straight and they can help you regulate a load for that rifle. You will also want to focus more on a rifle that has been chambered in a rimmed cartridge (just less to fail with them).

 

[375Fox]

Put that additional money toward a buffalo hunt in a true safari area in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Zambia and you’ll get much more satisfaction out of that hunt with your current bolt action rifle rather than spending money on a double rifle that isn’t perfect for you. Nothing compares to hunting in a wilderness area where you have the big 4 present along with hippo and crocs and no fences in sight. I think you’ll be happier upgrading your hunt.

 

[375Fox]

Here’s a good article too. What I take from it is a scoped rifle shot well beats an unscoped rifle for buffalo hunting.

Is Bigger Always Better?

I thought this group may enjoy this article I wrote in the latest African Gazette. A link to that particular issue (of which Divan Labuschagne, one of our great PHs, also took the cover picture): Let me know your thoughts....

www.africahunting.com

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

I fought the same struggle. Bought a double only to have issues with it's just before the safari. Sold the double and returned to my CZ 458 lott, it now has 5 buffs and a lioness to its name. I use it way more than I would have a double. Either up grade your 700 with a better extractor or get a controlled round feed bolt. Save the money you would spend on the double on safaris.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I wouldn't do it. I'm a Canadian and formerly a poor working man with a family. Good spending habits don't disappear just because the bank account blossoms.

Buy yourself a couple more African hunts rather than some silly prestige thingy. I can shoot my scoped bolt action rifle very quickly and very accurately. And I seem to shoot better with it at running animals than off the sticks. Accuracy is more important than speed. I watch YouTube videos of dudes with fancy double rifles just filling the air with lead as fast as they can ... bangbang. Then fumbling with reloading while buff is running off buggered up. Shameful. I want more than two shots in my gun in the unlikely event something goes south and I have an angry buff on his way with PH unable to stop it (a fellow at the trap club had his Zimbabwe PH turn and run ... while Wes was desperately trying to reload his Ruger #1!).

I'm now building a 404 Jeffery on a standard Mauser 98. It will be a piece of history since that's what Jeffery initially used when they built that cartridge in 1905. It was the first big bore rimless designed for bolt action repeaters. So I'm going for the historical cool factor. But I'll also have four very good big bore rounds at my disposal before reloading. I did decline the option of extended magazine for fifth round. That would require building a custom stock. Anyway, if I can't stop a buffalo with four 400 gr slugs, I deserve to be stomped by him.

Be sensible. Thumper double guns have a lot of fans on here but I challenge any of them to argue they are sensible. Build yourself a nice walnut and blued African bolt action. Less money and more useful. What's not to like?

Yes, definitely do something about that extractor. I wouldn't have a rifle for anything that wasn't "snap-over." Especially not dangerous game. And that stock? Looks like the lid came off a paint can while it was being mixed at Home Depot.

 

[Sourdough]

@Buck0317 first congratulations on an excellent buffalo. Now on to you wanting a double rifle.

The problem is not money, the challenge (not problem) is priorities. You don't drive a $15,000 vehicle. You don't live in a $15,000 house. Not being a smart ass, just pointing out that a brand new truck is $50k to $100k+ depending on what you like. And I can promise you that even if you drive the coolest truck, a TRX, looking at it and looking at your double, you will always favor your double.

In addition to the Big 5 (and Hippo and Croc) you can use your double to hunt Giraffe, Eland, Roan, Sable, Kudu etc etc. And yes, with a good PH you can get within double range easily (and I'm not talking about being in a blind). And it is way more fun (and nostalgic) then shooting a magazine rifle, although a Holland & Holland, Rigby, Westley Richards, or W.J. Jeffery magazine rifle come very close.

At this point I should say a double is not only expensive to buy, they are expensive to feed, so you'll need to take that into consideration.

$15k to $25k shopped well will get you a sweet double, less then half the price of a new pickup, and very likely it will be worth more than you purchased it when you go to sell it.

Does it make sense to buy a double? Probably not. But it sounds like you've been bitten by the Safari Romance bug and for that it's worthwhile.

I'm a terrible influence I know. Whatever your decision have fun.

Oh, and sensible is boring.

 

[Slider]

Doubles and Cheap shouldn't be used in the same sentence. If you want a Double get a Rimmed Cartridge. Like a 450/400. A good used Double will be S9000+ When Sabattis came out the end of the barrle was ground out with a Grinding tool to Kick the Bullet to Regulation. Buyer beware!!!

 

[Josh P]

I joined the Army in my 30s because I didn't want to one day regret not having done so. The prospect (my own personal desire) of owning my own double seems a much easier task when compared to signing over years of my life to avoid regret. As others have stated, it's about order of priorities, with a few other values sprinkled in the mix.

 

[BeeMaa]

I still struggle with this same issue of wanting a double rifle but the practicality of owning one would most likely be lost on me. For the number of times I'm likely to hunt DG with a double, I'm better off putting that money toward another animal or even another safari...especially considering the Krieghoff BF I'd be looking at.

If I were a PH or a professional guide that had a real need for such a specialized tool...I'd get one. Until then I'll be happy being a client and take my bolt action (push-feed ) rifle for hunting DG.

Let us know what you decide.

 

[Labman]

Save the $$ and stick with a bolt action. Put the extra $$ towards your next hunt. I've often thought about a double but have stuck with my bolt action rifles. It's not price of the doubles that stops me from buying one it's the price of Elephant hunts.

 

[sureshot375]

The honest answer is that double rifles are a novelty for the visiting sportsman. I love double rifles. I love the challenge of hunting with open sights on a double. It is however,
a challenge. The learning curve to become proficient with one is steep. No matter how good I get with my double, I will never be as good with it as I am with my .375 model 700. (This would also be the appropriate time to tell you to ignore all the 700 trash talk)

If money is not a major concern, and you have an interest, then by all means go down the double rabbit hole. If your play budget prohibits a trip to a new country and a double, then skip the double.

In terms of value, a used Krieghoff is hard to beat. They also have gunsmiths in the US for service work.

 

[Graham Hunter]

If I were a PH hunting DG I would definitely own a double. The only reason is because it would be the best tool to protect my client and myself if things went South. In that situation and the close distance 2 shots and done or I'm done.

 

[Rare Breed]

I just recently completed my first bufffalo hunt in South Africa with my 416 Rem Mag (Remington 700) and man do I want a double rifle now! The problem is money... I'm looking on the lower price spectrum for double rifles and even a Sabatti in 416 Rigby is $7000+ and I can find an importer who will place the order. My question is this, knowing I'm not made of money should I try to find a lower price double rifle or just save the money and hunt with my 416 Rem? Perhaps someone on this forum has a line on more affordable double rifles?View attachment 539704

Sabatti is going to be the bottom rung of DRs. If they are either new or have been looked at by Ken Owen you will be presently surprised by the performance and enjoyment of the gun. I have owned five from Sabatti to Westley Richards. Just remember DRs are so much different and each is temperamental in terms of regulation which you do not encounter as much in a bolt action. Once you have taken a buff with a DR though you will always cherish the moment like no other. Just my POV

 

[Rare Breed]

You are not out of the realm of a decent double. You will be more or less looking at the used market in the Merkel, Blaser S2, Rozzini (10k+), then you start getting into 14k+ chapuis, then Heym (used starts depending on the model)

How accurate do you expect your rifle to be? For myself, dependability, accuracy, looks. For those reasons I do not own a double. I still want one, I just can have the most expensive rifle in my safe be one of my least accurate.

That is my personal preference, doesn't mean it applies to anyone else. Shoot a 2"×2" group @ 50 yards with a double is money for any animal you would hunt with it. If you want it, take a hard look at your gun safe and see what you don't use. If you don't use it, move it on so that you can purchase a double you will treasure.

One word of caution, plan on sending in you double if you purchase it used to a good smith (like JJ Perodeau or Ken Owens). Need to make sure they are straight and they can help you regulate a load for that rifle. You will also want to focus more on a rifle that has been chambered in a rimmed cartridge (just less to fail with them).

Wisdom. If my 5 DRs all have been sent to either JJ or Ken before I even fired them. Money well spent. Even if you choose to resell one people feel confident when they know either men have looked over your rifle first