Feeding problems guru

[postoak]

I've got a custom .338-06 based on a Savage 116. Does anyone have a gunsmith they can recommend? Someone really good? This thing mis-feeds in 3 different ways, sort of randomly. 1) The bolt slides over the cartridge without picking it up at all, 2) Sometimes the rear end of the cartridge pops out of the magazine lips, and 3) sometimes the front end catches on the chamber ramp. It seems like it will be a real challenge.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@postoak , since you are in the Houston area:

MG Arms, north of IAH and near Carters Country store: https://www.mgarmsinc.com/gunsmithing/

Hill Country Rifles: https://www.hillcountryrifles.com/riflesmithing/

Another place to consider that focuses on Savages is E.R. Shaw.

Shaw Barrels

Shaw Barrels

www.shawcustombarrels.com

 

[sgt_zim]

Have you tried a new/different magazine?

 

[postoak]

I've had multiple dealings with MG Arms. I would never use them again!

As for a different magazine, I'm not sure what you mean. The only "magazine" involved here, really is the stamped magazine box. I guess I could replace it but I think I'll just get back with the barrel company that did this conversion. I haven't bothered them because for a long time after I got this back from them I just single-loaded it at the range.

But, I was hoping for a recommendation from someone who has used someone that they consider a "genius" at fixing problems like this.

 

[sgt_zim]

As much as I like Savage rifles, and I do like them, I always believed that those older magazines were a weak point in the gun. Seating the mag with a good lockup isn't always a given with them.

I've got a new Model 110 Storm in 280AI, and the magazine engages differently than on your 116 or any of the older 10/110 models that use the same magazine style.

I have a model 10 308 target rifle, bought it about 10 years ago. It has that old style lockup, and I had similar issues with misfeeds with it.

 

[Hunter4752001]

When I was researching various Savage related stuff some years back, Fred Moreo of Sharp Shooter Supply was being touted as the being The Guru when it came to Savage rifles. I believe he has a very long wait time and has rubbed some people the wrong way. I can't comment on his workmanship from direct experience as the logistics of sending rifles internationally ruled was prohibitive. But it may be worth giving him a call or an email.

(ps I'd also try and get some local US feedback on him before spending money or handing over a rifle. Internet reputation can be misleading)

 

[postoak]

Thanks, Fred Moreo does seem to be a guru (according to the company he works for) and there is a long wait for his services, so that's one way I could go.

But, one of the services of that company is conversion to a DBM. Now *that's* something I had never heard of and if it is possible I think I'd prefer that to someone trying to fix the current magazine. So I'm going off to explore that option.

 

[sestoppelman]

The follower is often the culprit with feed issues. If you can find an after market follower that may solve it, but may not.
I sent a rifle in recently for similar issues to Gostomskis Gunsmiths in Maryland. Long way from home but even further for me.
They also did my 8x64 chamber job. Good guys, they do good work and reasonable. Like all gunsmiths they seem to loath email so phone is best.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I've got a custom .338-06 based on a Savage 116. Does anyone have a gunsmith they can recommend? Someone really good? This thing mis-feeds in 3 different ways, sort of randomly. 1) The bolt slides over the cartridge without picking it up at all, 2) Sometimes the rear end of the cartridge pops out of the magazine lips, and 3) sometimes the front end catches on the chamber ramp. It seems like it will be a real challenge.

@postoak
Where is the challenge mate just take time and think
Is the mag a double stack centre feed or just a double stack that feeds left then right.
Failed to feed is usually the result of a weak magazine spring. Try stretching the spring.
What was the parent cartridge, if it was any of the '06 family you can rule out the follower or feed lips.
Catching on the feed ramp is usually a result of cartridge to long

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@postoak
Where is the challenge mate just take time and think
Is the mag a double stack centre feed or just a double stack that feeds left then right.
Failed to feed is usually the result of a weak magazine spring. Try stretching the spring.
What was the parent cartridge, if it was any of the '06 family you can rule out the follower or feed lips.
Catching on the feed ramp is usually a result of cartridge to long

@postoak
Having a cartridge even a milli-poofteenth to long can stop the round feeding out of the magazine or jamming up on the feed ramp
In my Savage 110 it started life as a 270 and got converted to 35 Whelen with a magazine that allows cartridges to be 3.4" overall and still feed.
Hope these ideas save you a trip to the smith.
Bob

 

[postoak]

Bob Nelson - huh - I never heard of a double stack center feed before but I don't think Savage has ever made one -- could be wrong. Anyway it is regular staggered feed from left and right.

The history of this is I bought it used as a .338-06. It came with a medium-heavy sporter barrel which was accurate, but felt very unbalanced, so I sent it off and had a regular sporter barrel installed and replaced the stock with a B&C which was drop-in. I also changed out all the plastic bits and cheap action screws. So it has a metal magazine follower but the feeding problem was there with the factory plastic one as well.

I could change out the magazine spring but first I'll shorten the OAL and see what happens.

 

[postoak]

Okay, shortening the OAL made a difference; there's no more hanging up on the feed ramp, although I can just imagine how compressed the powder I'm using is. But I can address that later.

I'm usually getting good feeding on the last two rounds. Sometimes one of the top two will feed okay, too. The problems I'm having now are two. Sometimes the back of the cartridge isn't pushed up enough for the bolt to catch it and sometimes it is, but the front of the cartridge pops out of the magazine.

I'm not mechanical so can't figure out what could cause these two different symptoms but I'm going to send off for a new magazine spring and see what that does.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob Nelson - huh - I never heard of a double stack center feed before but I don't think Savage has ever made one -- could be wrong. Anyway it is regular staggered feed from left and right.

The history of this is I bought it used as a .338-06. It came with a medium-heavy sporter barrel which was accurate, but felt very unbalanced, so I sent it off and had a regular sporter barrel installed and replaced the stock with a B&C which was drop-in. I also changed out all the plastic bits and cheap action screws. So it has a metal magazine follower but the feeding problem was there with the factory plastic one as well.

I could change out the magazine spring but first I'll shorten the OAL and see what happens.

@postoak
My Stevens aka Savage 110 has a double stack centre feed mag. It loads like a single stack mag and feeds like a single but is a double side by side like a normal male below it. My mates Savage 223 feeds the same. Best set up since button up boots and sliced bread.
Bob

 

[postoak]

So like the Browning Hi-Power set up?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

So like the Browning Hi-Power set up?

@postoak
Exactly but for bigger/ longer cartridges.
Bob

 

[sestoppelman]

Okay, shortening the OAL made a difference; there's no more hanging up on the feed ramp, although I can just imagine how compressed the powder I'm using is. But I can address that later.

I'm usually getting good feeding on the last two rounds. Sometimes one of the top two will feed okay, too. The problems I'm having now are two. Sometimes the back of the cartridge isn't pushed up enough for the bolt to catch it and sometimes it is, but the front of the cartridge pops out of the magazine.

I'm not mechanical so can't figure out what could cause these two different symptoms but I'm going to send off for a new magazine spring and see what that does.

Did you check the overall length of your rounds before test feeding? Did they fit in the mag easily or right near the front of the magazine? Like right there.
You might try as Bob suggested stretching your follower spring which can help by making it a bit stiffer, push up a bit better on the rounds.

 

[postoak]

A bit of follow-up. I emailed Sharp Shooter Supply but they never responded. I also tried to order a new magazine spring but they are out of stock everywhere, so I created an alert to notify me when one become available.

One reason I didn't think about the rounds being too long is because, with the old barrel, all 4 of the bullets I use would feed properly.

So, I realized that there are 3 factors that affect feeding and seating involved here: the leade in the chamber, the magazine length, and the slope of the feed ramp/and it's positioning in relation to the front of the magazine box. Apparently the last factor was what was causing most, but not all, of my feeding issues.

As stated in an earlier post, shortening the rounds, as recommended first by Bob Nelson, solved most of my feeding problems. So, I wanted to get a handle on when the mis-feeds were now occurring and I discovered that if I loaded the magazine full, I had no feed problems at all but when I loaded a single round, the back of the case would pop out of the magazine lips after the cartridge had moved forward about 3/8 inch or so.

So, last night I sat down to see why the last round of a full magazine would feed okay but that same round loaded singly wouldn't. After fiddling around I discovered that I could get the singly loaded round to feed okay by pushing the rear of the case deeper down into the magazine box before releasing it and letting it pop up into place. Since this rifle won't ever be used on dangerous game, I think I have a good enough feeding situation to where I am not going to bother sending this off to anyone to be worked on.

Long post, I know, but I thought some of you might be interested.