For Sale W.J. Jeffery 8-Bore Elephant Rifle Mfg. 1895

[TexasJake]

Maker: W.J. Jeffery

Model: Underlever Hammer Express, Doll's head 3rd fastener, Jones underlever, Sling swivel eyes, Rebounding hammers.

Gauge / Caliber: 8-Bore (.840) 3.5”

Serial #: 2982

Country of Origin: England

Year of Mfg.: Mfg. 21st of October 1895

Barrels: 24”

Weight: 16 lbs. 10 oz.

LOP: 14" LOP

Good Bores. The right bore is a bit more frosty than the left as expected with these rifles with overall decent bores and sharp rifling.



Note: I purchased this rifle last year thinking it was a bit older than 1895. I am looking for an 8-Bore made during the early to mid-1880’s for a project I am working on. This one was made after the date I was looking for and I did not know it until I got a copy of the original ledger book. (Photo included). I have not shot the gun but am told by the previous seller it was a “good shooter”. I had Gordy & Sons (Houston, TX) do a full inspection and chamber casting on the rifle and all checked out great in December of 2022.

Also; I did a presentation on this rifle along with another for the Houston Gun Collectors Association. A copy of that presentation is posted on their website if anyone wants to look at it.



I am selling for $25,000 or a trade (Likely partial) on the following … Always willing to entertain offers as well.

(1) 8-Bore Double Rifle made about 1880, before or thereabouts

(2) 500 Black Powder Express made about 1879 or before

(3) Winchester 1876 in 50-95 Express

(4) Early Colt SAA in .45 Colt made before 1880

 

[Green Chile]

Beautiful rifle. I love seeing the bore rifles. Someday I would like to add an 8 to my 12 bore Alex Henry. Is there brass or mould available?

In your display photo, what is the lower rifle? Also, what is the publication on the left of Cal’s book?

 

[TexasJake]

The rifle below the 8-bore is an 1872 W.W. Greener 12 Bore with 2.5" Chambers.

The book is actually a collection of articles on Bore Double Rifles I have collected over the years. As I find articles written, I would buy two copies of the magazine and keep one copy and take out the articles to put in a single binder for the other. These were from Double Gun Journal and a few others over the years. Good nuggets of information in those articles.

 

[rookhawk]

Lovely gun. The proof mark 1/6 suggests it’s a six bore, but these are so rare it may be that a six bore is shooting a two ounce projectile making it an “eight bore cartridge”?

Very cool. I’d suggest you send it to Ken Owen to have a regulating load made for the gun. It costs a pittance and would add strongly to the sale.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

As an "elephant rifle" would it be used to shoot elephants or shot while riding one? It is hard to imagine anyone less than Hulk Hogan carrying one of those around in the bush. Curious, what does it weigh? I have seen eight gauge punt guns but those were typically attached to or rested on the gunwhale of a duck boat.

Edit: There, I see it in the fine print. Weighs just over sixteen pounds. Not as much as I would have thought. But enough to teach a herd of trackers how to swear.

 

[TexasJake]

Lovely gun. The proof mark 1/6 suggests it’s a six bore, but these are so rare it may be that a six bore is shooting a two ounce projectile making it an “eight bore cartridge”?

Very cool. I’d suggest you send it to Ken Owen to have a regulating load made for the gun. It costs a pittance and would add strongly to the sale.

Do you have Ken Owen's contact info? If so, please feel free to send it to me at Jacob at JacobHargrave dot com.

Thanks

 

[rookhawk]

Sent you the info @TexasJake (you were already in my email so we've definitely corresponded or bought/sold something to one another in the past.

Great rifle you've got there!

 

[SAFARIKIDD]

What a Beautiful Double with so much History

 

[AZDAVE]

Beautiful rifle. The bore rifles are very special. That one is in great shape.

 

[matthew anderson]

Picture’s don’t do it justice. I’ve had the opportunity to fondle this beauty, it’s a stunning rifle. I’ve done business with @TexasJake on a couple of guns, he’s a stand up guy.

 

[rookhawk]

The 1/6 proof mark fascinates me. (not casting shade because I 100% believe the gun is what it purports to mean.)

Bore in British literally means "how many round lead balls would exist, totaling one pound, to fit down the barrel" . I've seen 12 gauge shotguns that had "11 bore" proof marks indicating bigger barrels, regardless of shooting a 12 gauge shell, and I've seen "13 bore" proofmarks indicating the barrels are tighter but they still shoot a 12 gauge shell.

In this case, the proof is 1/6, meaning one pound of lead balls fitting down the barrel would be SIX round balls. 6 balls divided by 16 ounces per pound is a ball of 2.667 ounces. 7000 grains to the pound, it would also be 1167 grains per ball.

That's a big bullet! perhaps the bullets meant for the gun weren't round balls, but rather a conical that was a bit hollow at the meplat so that even though the bore is a "six bore" the bullets were "eight bore" or approximately 875 grains each?

These are truly rare guns, and nobody alive today really knows what the proofhouse was thinking when they proofed such rare, super large bore guns. It's just an interesting observation.

The 8-bore is a bore diameter of 0.835", a six bore would be 0.919", a seven bore would be 0.873".

I believe the seller indicates the bullet mold was to make bullets of 0.850".

Its all confusing, but obviously legit because the barrels are tighter than the math above, meaning absolutely no one has mucked around with them over the past century, I just wonder why they called it an 1/6 bore on the proofmarks? Maybe they didn't count the lands, but rather the grooves and that is bigger?

I wish Ken Owen was on this forum or Ross Seyfried, they could teach us a lot of history on these exceedingly rare big guns.

 

[Green Chile]

What's the twist rate? That will tell you if it's built for ball, conical or both. That and a chamber cast will tell you a lot of info. Not casting shade as was said...just offering some thoughts on it. If I wasn't booked on a cancellation hunt this fall, I would be more than interested.

 

[flatwater bill]

Ya, I wonder what bullet was used. Oft times the molds were kept with these fine old guns, in the case, and so told more of the story. The 10 bore I had a chance to look at and fire, used 10 drams and an 875 grain bullet (2 ounces, and so equivalent to an 8 bore) so maybe this was used with an 1150 grain bullet (about) and as stated above, had 6 in the markings. I've not seen a roundball cartridge gun made after 1882, but perhaps they exist. "10 drams RO Bullet" makes me wonder what RO referred to. Anyway, someone on AH is looking for an 8 bore and this would be as good a rifle as they could hope for..............FWB

 

[Green Chile]

If the mould is missing, twist rate and rifle weight will tell you a lot. A friend has a Greener 8 bore (actually a 6 bore that measures at .91) and his gun is heavier at 18.25 lbs. Some of these are paper hull 6's to get the 8 bore. All are special and remember that back in this era, a company would make almost anything for their customer.

 

[matt85]

This is exactly the kind of rifle I'm looking to buy myself. If I'm able to sell my 500 NE (available on this classified) then I will be in touch with you shortly.

1/6 pound projectile is correct for an 8 bore. I've seen many 8 bore guns regulated for 1200gr +/- 50gr projectiles. I used to shoot somewhat regularly with Cal Pappas (may he rest is peace) and his 8 bore regulated well with a 1250gr hard cast bullet. In fact, it was shooting his gun that inspired me to try and get my own.

-Matt

 

[Kynoch2015]

Spectacular rifle!!! What’s not to like! A couple of thoughts. Perhaps the 6/1 stamp on the flats refers to the chamber dimension (for a paper case) rather than the bore? As stated above, 6 bore is .919”. As the 6/1 indicates a larger than 6 bore, that fits with the chamber cast at .926” (An example of a 12/1 bore below.) while the bore diameter is 8 based on the cast. Looking at the bore pics from the muzzles, I think this is a ball gun based on the apparent rate of twist. Would be interesting to know how much of a complete twist does the rifling make in the 24” barrel? Personally, I much prefer ball vs bullet rifles as there is only one “correct“ bullet to start building a regulating load. (Does the notation in the factory ledger suggest “rd bullet”?). Again, this is a spectacular rifle that anyone would be proud to own!

12-bore nominal sizes

Calibre in inches Bore size Metric

.740 12/1 18.8

.729 12 18.5

 

[frog stealer]

All,

It is not “1/6”, it is actually “9/1”, which is a slightly smaller measurement for 8 bore guns. Here is a pic from Cal’s great book “Bore Rifles” of another with the same proof (bore dimensions also given):

 

[rigbymauser]

Interesting. Normally after the proofact of 1887 all english gunmakers had to mark the borediameter in inches.....a la .500 instead of "38" or .450 instead of "52". My 10bore is marked .793"...

 

[matt85]

Is this rifle still available?

-Matt

 

[Datchew]

that's a beautiful piece of history. I'll give it a bump and a smart-ass comment.
The thought of lugging it around hurts my back. You could take out a tyrannosaur with that thing.
Godzilla killa