Good news...but I'm greedy for more

[rookhawk]

Really good news:

First loads, first 3 shots at 100 yards with the 107 year old Westley Richards .318 take down. Roughly 1 MOA. I have to gloat a bit, Medford rifling. Some throat erosion. A take down. Still MOA after all this time!

Any suggestions on what I can do to seek better accuracy?

Things I can't do:

Brass is what it is

Depth of seated bullet to the crimp is fixed

Bullet is a 250gr woodleigh


So options:

Increase or decrease Imr4350 powder. Presently 53gr.

Try h4350 powder instead

Change to recipes for 4831SC or RL19.

What would you do?

 

[BRICKBURN]

Evidently the old Westley Richards did not lose anything with age.

 

[Mekaniks]

Very Nice! I wouldn't mess with it...

 

[GA Hunter]

Assuming that this was shot with open sights I would not change a thing. Like Brickburn said the old girl hasn't lost much through the years. Besides no real need to risk additional throat erosion.

 

[IvW]

A take down. Still MOA after all this time!

Any suggestions on what I can do to seek better accuracy?

Great stuff!!

To answer your question blunty.

Nothing!

You could take a Jagermeister after you downed the first animal with it though!

 

[rookhawk]

Assuming that this was shot with open sights I would not change a thing. Like Brickburn said the old girl hasn't lost much through the years. Besides no real need to risk additional throat erosion.

Iron sights? I can't do that with iron sights at 10 yards, lol! No, that 1MOA was with a scope at 100 yards.

I was just wondering whether I should jiggle the handle a bit. .5 grain more or less with I4350, perhaps try H4350 instead as it has different volume in the case? Also have RL19 and 4831sc recipes.

Is it possible a metford rifled take down could be a half MOA gun with load tweeting? I just find it so odd that first load tried resulted in what it did. Instead of being very thankful, I'm feeling rather greedy.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Really good news:

First loads, first 3 shots at 100 yards with the 107 year old Westley Richards .318 take down. Roughly 1 MOA. I have to gloat a bit, Medford rifling. Some throat erosion. A take down. Still MOA after all this time!

Any suggestions on what I can do to seek better accuracy?

Things I can't do:

Brass is what it is

Depth of seated bullet to the crimp is fixed

Bullet is a 250gr woodleigh


So options:

Increase or decrease Imr4350 powder. Presently 53gr.

Try h4350 powder instead

Change to recipes for 4831SC or RL19.

What would you do?

Given the condition of the rifle and the group you have, you could go with it as is IF the grouping is repeatable. I doubt that it isn't, but I like to replicate my loads a couple of times to be confident. One time can be a fluke.

I'm not really familiar with the .318WR but I'm guessing that you're shooting a heavy for caliber bullet in the 250gr pill. IMR4350 is typically better with light to medium bullet weights. But having said that I've seen it work well in heavy for cal bullets too as can be seen in your results. H4831 may give you better velocity being a slower powder and thus better suited to the bullet weight.

So here's what I would do:

1) Increase and decrease your IMR4350 load by 0.2gr, 0.4gr and 0.6gr increments and one more build at the present load to ensure repeatability. If you got lucky and hit the load perfect the first time, then you'll see the groups slowly opening up as you go up/down from that center point. If you didn't hit it perfectly, then you should see the groups improve when going one way or the other. Having no idea if you're load was approaching max, I must of course emphasize paying attention to bolt operation and your brass with the increasing loads.

2) Take notes as you do number 1. I would shoot the original load first to see if it replicates. If it does, you've got a good baseline now. Then as you shoot the others, compare them to this original group. If the groups open up excessively at either the +/- 0.2gr from the original load, then you're too close to a cliff with the original. If the groups open up at both of the +/- 0.2gr loads, for me that means the loading is too critical. I like to have some "forgiveness" in the load to either side of the intended weight to allow for my potential error and/or temperature variation. I don't load for that last few fps, instead I like to settle in to a center point allowing for tolerance to either side of the powder weight to ensure a consistent accurate load. If I can't find this point, then I'm inclined to try another powder.

3) If you have H4831 and you just want to (I know I would, but that's my reloading OCD kicking in), it has given me accurate loads in a number of rifles I have. And it may be give you better results than the IMR4350.

4) I haven't worked with RL19 very much, it only worked well in one rifle in the past, but it may work well for you. So again if you already have it and want to...... It does have burn rate in between the 4350 and H4831, so yeah, you can try and see what happens. I'm not a huge fan of the RL powders as they seem to have a fair amount more of lot/lot and temp variability. IMR4350 has shown to me in the past that accuracy goes down when the ambient temp starts to head north of 90 degrees, but other than shooting in the heat, it has been a great powder for me. The Hodgdon powders for me without question show the least amount of variability.

Best of luck, I'd guess you're already quite close to having your load.

 

[BnC 04]

I think you are spot on with a working load.
Varying the charge dosent take away from the human variables. Don't know how many times I have had the desire to change up a known good load one day and the next shoot a 3 round grouping that was overlapping.
IMO, I would shoot a few more groupings before scaling powder up and down as it's looking very good so far.

 

[PARA45]

+1 to what Phoenix Phil said. Also, what type of primers are you using? Maybe using a different primer may/may not improve your current load. I am sure you know this, but just in case, work one variable at a time.

 

[CAustin]

Time to go hunting!

 

[Sako AV]

Don't change a thing! You have an accurate load with a quality bullet so the only thing left to do is put it to good use on the animals of your choice.

 

[Shootist43]

Why fix what "ain't" broke. I don't know anything about 318 WR ballistics but 1" high at a hundred should have you dead on at 150yds or so. IMHO straight shooting rifles like your WR and my Mausers are a thing of the past and not necessarily a thing of the present. I know they have throat erosion gages for common calibers, are they available for your WR? I thought it takes a lot of shots in lower velocity calibers to cause any appreciable wear. Re. your current load, if its' repeatable, I'd go with it.

 

[nztimb]

As has been said, shoot the same load again to check for repeatability and take it hunting. It is not a bench rifle and one of the reasons that there are some very good barrels still on these older rifle (corosive primers notwwithstanding) is that they were shot at animals and not paper so no unessary shots that will excellerate the barrel wear and throat erosion.

 

[petrusg]

What amazes me is the fact that they produced a rifle over a 100 years ago that shoots that well. I take my hat off to Westley Richards.

 

[8x68]

Very Nice! I wouldn't mess with it...

+1^. Pretty cool! Nothing wrong with that grouping

 

[Shootist43]

What amazes me is the fact that they produced a rifle over a 100 years ago that shoots that well. I take my hat off to Westley Richards.

Are you kidding or what? Most rifles from 100 years ago will outshoot what is manufactured today. Ever hear of the 1896 Swedish Mauser, Mauser K-98, Springfield '03 etc. Personally I'll take an old gun over a new one any day. There is however one exception, a new rifle from a number of custom gunsmiths and or high dollar manufacturers will probably shoot just as well, I just can't afford them.

 

[rookhawk]

I'm not amazed that a 107 year old rifle shoots well.

I'm amazed this rifle shoots well:

1.) it doesnt have rifling as you would know it. It looks like a twisted rope with no lands and grooves. It just has metford hills and valleys. In short, it doesn't engrave during firing with the sharpness of normal rifling.


2.) it's a take down rifle. Not usually known for accuracy when you quarter turn the barrel and a plunger locks it in place.

3.) the barrel has been well used and well loved. There is throat erosion, or at least I think there is based on the weirdness I see in there but don't know how they built metford rifled guns.

4.) I used a 250 grain bullet with a .420 BC, not exactly a bastion of inherent accuracy with that round nose.

Whatever, I'll take what I got!

 

[Red Leg]

I'm not amazed that a 107 year old rifle shoots well.

I'm amazed this rifle shoots well:

1.) it doesnt have rifling as you would know it. It looks like a twisted rope with no lands and grooves. It just has metford hills and valleys. In short, it doesn't engrave during firing with the sharpness of normal rifling.


2.) it's a take down rifle. Not usually known for accuracy when you quarter turn the barrel and a plunger locks it in place.

3.) the barrel has been well used and well loved. There is throat erosion, or at least I think there is based on the weirdness I see in there but don't know how they built metford rifled guns.

4.) I used a 250 grain bullet with a .420 BC, not exactly a bastion of inherent accuracy with that round nose.

Whatever, I'll take what I got!

The rifle was never intended to shoot that accurately Seriously, the Birmingham Boys would have been satisfied with three inches. I would declare absolute victory and go kill something.

 

[rookhawk]

The rifle was never intended to shoot that accurately Seriously, the Birmingham Boys would have been satisfied with three inches. I would declare absolute victory and go kill something.

@Red Leg for your records, as surely our guns were cut with the same reamer and regulated by the same man:

New Bertram brass, not full length sized
WLR primer
250gr woodleigh soft
53gr IMR4350
2200fps

 

[Red Leg]

@Red Leg for your records, as surely our guns were cut with the same reamer and regulated by the same man:

New Bertram brass, not full length sized
WLR primer
250gr woodleigh soft
53gr IMR4350
2200fps

Thanks brother will give it a try in mine.