Gun Control

[SnowLeopard]

April 19th, 1775 - the start of the American Revolution.

British troops marched on Lexington & Concord to try to confiscate the guns people had in those towns. Gun confiscation was to start there and spread throughout the colonies.

It didn't quite go as planned.

 

[Captain Munro]

Nor will it this time around.

 

[mark-hunter]

The emphasis is on "quite"!

 

[Pheroze]

Texas is going to allow unlicensed carry This is a development I don't understand, it sounds very risky. Is it seen as a good thing?

Texas set to allow people to carry handguns without a license – or training | Texas | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[mdwest]

Constitutional Carry has already been passed in several US states.. Texas is actually several years behind other places..

 

[Pheroze]

Constitutional Carry has already been passed in several US states.. Texas is actually several years behind other places..

How does it work out in practice? I read that no additional training is required either. I am just trying to imagine how untrained folks carrying guns for self defense will be useful. It seems like a real skill to use a firearm for self defense, especially in a public space. (I am genuinely curious as we can't carry at all so I don't understand how it works out)

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Texas is going to allow unlicensed carry This is a development I don't understand, it sounds very risky. Is it seen as a good thing?

Texas set to allow people to carry handguns without a license – or training | Texas | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

I confess... I don't follow who does what on this issue, but people carry freely in Alaska. I have never had anyone question or notice mine, and I don't notice when it's in me. I live in a small enough, remote enough place that it's just not an everyday thing anyway.

 

[sestoppelman]

Open carry is legal in WA state, but not particularly recommended in some parts of the state as it would likely cause alarm, especially amongst visiting Canadians! LOL.
We dont expect folks from other parts of the world that dont have enumerated rights, in particular gun rights as we do here in the US. I understand it must look weird at times.
We cherish these rights as noted in our Bill of Rights, that they are not given to us by govt, but only affirmed on paper, the rights are inherent of Free peoples.
But its not like everyone in TX or anywhere else is all of a sudden going to go buy a big ol hawgleg and strap it into a big ol leather buckled holster wearing a ten gallon Stetson, and walk around like Yosemite Sam looking for a shootout wit' some vermits'.
That might be the perception but its not the reality. Look at it as a further affirmation of our 2nd Amendment Rights.
Some few folks will for the novelty perhaps try it out a time or two, but after that wears off, probably go back to concealed carry and not try to bring too much attention to themselves.
When I lived in Idaho in the mid 70's me and my buds carried openly all the time in the small town we lived near to, no one cared, maybe smirked a bit, "look at them young bucks tryin to look cool".

As we all know or should know, gun control is not about gun control, its about people control. That is why our Founders wrote these words, they knew that someday we might need our guns to stop a tyrannical govt from doing evil. That was their main vision, remaining free citizens, unlike most of the world.
How it might work out in todays world is anyone's guess.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi Pheroze,

Here in Alaska, as long as a person is in lawful possession of a firearm, they may carry it concealed or in plain view, either way.
In other words, we (Alaskans) have a carry policy / state law that, mirrors the USA Bill of Rights, specifically The 2nd Amendment.
(“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”).
The Alaska State acknowledgement of this was passed into state law, many years ago.
I was an Anchorage Police Officer at the time (retired 19 years now).

I clearly remember that when our state law passed, soon thereafter I personally was not dispatched to any more armed robberies of individuals, for many months.
And, in the years that followed, I personally was only dispatched to same, on rare occasions.

I’m referring to the once common here, type of robbery wherein, a victim is suddenly approached at an outside Automated Cash Machine, or as the victim is exiting their car at a gas station, convenience market, etc. and money is demanded at gun point or knife point or broken bottle brandished, etc.
It generally stopped, as if striking a proverbial brick wall.

Perhaps the best illustration of why this works so well is, the USA cities that enjoy the highest murder numbers, also have the strictest gun control laws.

Hope this helps clarify what’s going on, here in what I call, “the free states”, within the USA.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Cam Moon]

As a Canadian, I am envious of my Southern neighbors and their second amendment rights. Here, our government is talking about banning handguns completely. We cannot carry at all, and can only use a handgun (or any other restricted firearms) at a government approved and licensed firing range. The firearm needs to be locked up during transport to and from the range, with all accompanying paperwork.
I am a firm believer that any type of gun control or gun laws will only add to public safety if the laws are specifically directed at criminals. I don't think that law-abiding citizens are much of a problem in Canada or in the US. It's gangs, drug wars, home invasions, robberies and such that are the major contributors. It makes perfectly good sense to me that crime rates would go down for crimes such as home invasions, carjacking, muggings etc. if there was a high likelihood that the (would be) victim had a firearm that they were able to defend themselves with. I wish we could carry in Canada, but hell, we have a hard enough time just owning them! I also think our crime rates would drop drastically if we were allowed to use firearms for self defense. As it is now, our Canadian criminals don't really face much of a punishment, so there isn't much of a deterrent. I'm not sure that I would be in favor of no licensing or training being required though. I feel safety training is very important. Just my opinions.

 

[Zambezi]

Draft legislation has just come out in SA trying to take away our right to cite "self defence" as a reason for acquiring a hand gun. Furthermore they want to limit the number guns we can own, further reduce the amount of ammo per license, a new requirement to license black powder weapons as well as an outright ban on handloading. Our own moronic head cop has stated that he wants only the police and army to have firearms. We are in a battle for our guns right now. Not to mention what they have planned for a completely disarmed population... Our constitution guarantees our right to defend ourselves and right to life so if it does go ahead we may have to go through all the court processes to the constitutional court and fight it there. Hopefully this draft will be thrown in the bin right away. But don't hold your breath.

 

[Cam Moon]

Not to mention what they have planned for a completely disarmed population...

That's the scary part!

 

[Zambezi]

This comes at a time when the Expropriation Without Compensation legislation is almost coming into effect (they can take any land, house, business etc away from whites without compensation). So if the population of gunowners (and whites seem to have the most licensed firearms) is disarmed and they want your stuff............................ or maybe I just think too much..... but then again this is Africa......

 

[leslie hetrick]

it amazes me that with a large income comming into africa from hunting that they would be so anti gun. alot of countries in africa have trouble feeding their people now and with taking of the farms and giving them to the blacks with out any expearene in farming will be a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[VertigoBE]

This comes at a time when the Expropriation Without Compensation legislation is almost coming into effect (they can take any land, house, business etc away from whites without compensation). So if the population of gunowners (and whites seem to have the most licensed firearms) is disarmed and they want your stuff............................ or maybe I just think too much..... but then again this is Africa......

I have never understood how this legislation did not receive more pushback from other countries, or even the UN human rights council. I cannot imagine expropriation without compensation could be acceptable in any country, nor accepted by any other (western) country. This is dictator rule..

 

[Zambezi]

I have never understood how this legislation did not receive more pushback from other countries, or even the UN human rights council. I cannot imagine expropriation without compensation could be acceptable in any country, nor accepted by any other (western) country. This is dictator rule..

Its the way of both the western and eastern worlds. Keep Africa destabilised just enough to control it and rape it.... There are many ways to colonise a continent. I won't say every country outside of Africa does this but remember there are huge profits and gains to be had. Look at what happened when Zambia opened up in the late 80's you could pick up a copper mine for around $20 million etc etc etc etc

So when SA goes completely into the toilet SOMEONE is going to profit off it.

Anyway, don't want to derail the thread.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi Pheroze,

Here in Alaska, as long as a person is in lawful possession of a firearm, they may carry it concealed or in plain view, either way.
In other words, we (Alaskans) have a carry policy / state law that, mirrors the USA Bill of Rights, specifically The 2nd Amendment.
(“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”).
The Alaska State acknowledgement of this was passed into state law, many years ago.
I was an Anchorage Police Officer at the time (retired 19 years now).

I clearly remember that when our state law passed, soon thereafter I personally was not dispatched to any more armed robberies of individuals, for many months.
And, in the years that followed, I personally was only dispatched to same, on rare occasions.

I’m referring to the once common here, type of robbery wherein, a victim is suddenly approached at an outside Automated Cash Machine, or as the victim is exiting their car at a gas station, convenience market, etc. and money is demanded at gun point or knife point or broken bottle brandished, etc.
It generally stopped, as if striking a proverbial brick wall.

Perhaps the best illustration of why this works so well is, the USA cities that enjoy the highest murder numbers, also have the strictest gun control laws.

Hope this helps clarify what’s going on, here in what I call, “the free states”, within the USA.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Ladies & Gents,

Last night, I had returned from a local fishing trip and was making rather merry.
With my apology, I throw myself upon my own sword.
My above post is not entirely accurate.

Indeed the armed robbery rate suddenly dropped in Anchorage, Alaska during my former career with the Police Department here.
However, it was not due to the enactment of the law entitling law abiding people to carry concealed weapons - no permit required.
It was apparently due to the State Troopers deciding to loosen their grip on issuing concealed weapon permits here.

That policy change, resulting in a large amount of concealed weapon permits saturating the law abiding population of Anchorage, apparently caused the sudden drop in armed robbery numbers, during my career here.
Again, it was not due to the enactment of our “free to carry” law, making the issue of concealed weapon permits redundant and unnecessary.

Our law, entitling law abiding people to carry concealed weapons, with no permit required, was not made official until, I believe in 2010 ? (8 years after I retired).
At any rate, the sudden flood of decent people being able to get a permit without undo delay or red tape, appeared to me to have caused the sudden downswing in robbery calls.

So at the end of the day, when the government has rare moments of clarity and decent, hard working people are willing to take action against criminals, said criminals tend to notice and evidently stop attacking as often.

Cheers,
Paul.

 

[mdwest]

How does it work out in practice? I read that no additional training is required either. I am just trying to imagine how untrained folks carrying guns for self defense will be useful. It seems like a real skill to use a firearm for self defense, especially in a public space. (I am genuinely curious as we can't carry at all so I don't understand how it works out)

To my knowledge its worked out well in practice..

You have to realize that the "training" requirement in most states to obtain a carry permit is frankly a joke, and isnt much more than the state trying to avoid some liability in the event that a permit holder does something stupid.. In most states youre looking at an 8 hour day that includes maybe 1-2 hours on the range...

You essentially spend a few hours addressing legal limitations specific to the state (where you can carry, where you cant, what you are obligated to do (or not) when approached by law enforcement, etc).. a few hours addressing equipment, which as often as not turns into a sales pitch by the gun shop or independent instructor teaching the class (i.e. THIS holster is perfect... or "that .22 is insufficient, you need one of my shiney 9mm's!").. a couple of hours addressing basic safety.. and then a short written test that you could coach a chimp to pass if they had entered the classroom a few hours earlier and had zero prior knowledge...

Then, depending on the state.. you either go to the range and fire a few familiarization/practice rounds and go through a few drills to demonstrate safety.. then you shoot a "qualification course.. or in others you go straight to the "qualification course... (a few states dont even require you to "qualify".. you simply have to demonstrate you are "safe" with the firearm)..

Then you file your paperwork.. and a few weeks later a carry permit arrives in the mail..


Waiving the training requirement and telling people that want to carry "know the law.. here's a copy of it, and here's a video to watch to help you better understand it" would be just as effective (those that dont care wont pay attention in the training class and will still pass.. and those that do care will learn just as much from a 1 hour online video that is provided (but not required) by the state)... and then telling people "seek out some reputable training with a certified instructor" would be far more beneficial..

A student that takes a 2 day handgun class from your typical NRA or LEO firearms instructor will walk away with 500% more information and enhanced skills than the typical person walks out of a carry permit class with..


Edited to add... understand that the training requirement to be an "armed guard" (actually carry a weapon for a living) isnt much greater in most states.. and in some states there is ZERO training requirement... you just pay the state your fee for your armed guard license.. and you start carrying a gun....

Mississippi is a good example.. in MS to be an armed security guard you simply fill out the paperwork, submit to a background check, pay the state $132 to process your application and issue your license.. and voila! you now are licensed to carry a firearm for work.. ZERO training in firearms, or even "security" is required..

 

[curtism1234]

How does it work out in practice? I read that no additional training is required either. I am just trying to imagine how untrained folks carrying guns for self defense will be useful. It seems like a real skill to use a firearm for self defense, especially in a public space. (I am genuinely curious as we can't carry at all so I don't understand how it works out)

Missouri has no requirements either. You can never have shot a gun your entire life, buy a handgun in an hour, and stick it in your pocket. How does it work out, it doesn't. I have a much greater risk of getting shot by a legal gun owner in a parking lot argument than getting robbed.

As my boss says, "with great power comes great responsibility"

 

[mdwest]

I have a much greater risk of getting shot by a legal gun owner in a parking lot argument than getting robbed.

Where does that statistic/fact come from?

Perhaps Im blind to MO criminal and civil courts.. but I certainly hear about far more criminal incidents involving firearms in MO (St. Louis is now the murder capital of the US for example) than I do accidental shootings happening in the state...or shootings in parking lots over arguments (which would also be a criminal act.. and not something typical of a law abiding gun owner)

Kansas City, Missouri for what its worth is the #8 city in the US for per capita murders

the greater risk statement sounds like bloviated media generated BS to me..

Murder map: Deadliest U.S. cities

You might be surprised by the murder rates in major cities across the U.S.

www.cbsnews.com

Armed robbery is actually a pretty big problem in Missouri as well...

The State Police handled almost 2900 armed robberies that were specifically conducted with firearms in 2018...

How many people in MO were shot by legal firearms owners over arguments in parking lots in 2018?

Missouri Statistical Analysis Home Page

www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov

But youre telling me you experience greater risk from legal gun owners?

Bullshit.