H414 reality check loaddata.com vs Modern Reloading Manual 2nd ed.

[Pheroze]

I have decided to try and load a 285 gr Speer Grand slam for my 375. Seems like a good choice for essentially a moose load. I was looking at the list of powders (just comparing them) in the Lee manual and also on a website www.loaddata.com. Interesting thing is that the amounts specified for H414 are different between the Lee manual and the website.

www.loaddata.com claims to be reprinting the data from the Speer manual vol 14. It stated that for a 285gr GS over H414 use 82 gr for a starting load at 2645 fps and 84 gr for a max load at 2697 fps. This seemed a lot to me so I checked their list for a 300 gr and it lists for the Speer 300gr TBBC starting load of 79gr and a max load of 81 gr.

Double checking against the Lee manual it does not list for the H414 for 285gr but for the 300gr jacketed bullet it states "never exceed" 78gr with this powder.

I don't have the Speer manual to see if this is an error but I am wondering what youfolks make of this?

 

[Areaonereal]

Latest Nosler 7, shows 78 gr max on 300 gr with W760, same powder as H414, do not push the envelope without working up to the ovemax loads in very small increments, watch for pressure signs.

 

[Grumulkin]

Your example is not nearly the only one I've encountered in which a starting load in one manual is higher than the maximum load in another.

All you really need to know is a starting load so pick the lower one and work up from there. If you know how to judge pressure in your gun (I'm referring to strong bolt action rifles), your gun will tell you what the maximum load should be.

 

[Pheroze]

Thanks. Checking multiple sources to ensure the starting load is really a starting load! Good to know for sure.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Your example is not nearly the only one I've encountered in which a starting load in one manual is higher than the maximum load in another.

All you really need to know is a starting load so pick the lower one and work up from there. If you know how to judge pressure in your gun (I'm referring to strong bolt action rifles), your gun will tell you what the maximum load should be.

Yeah I'm with Grumulkin here. H414 is listed as a bit faster burning than IMR4350. Book max for a 300gr A-Frame is 75. Now I've gone over that by a bit, but I've not hit 80gr or more. So 79gr as a STARTING load seems quite high.

I think I'd start at something around 75gr, loading two bullets each and work up in 0.5gr increments. A few "wasted" bullets is better than a broke rifle or injured shooter.

 

[tarbe]

Only be suspicious when the data does not differ between manuals!

Agree with Phil - start no higher than 75gr of H414 and work up from there.

Primer, brass and the rifle (especially the length of the throat) will all make for unknowns (heck, even the lot of powder can make a detectable difference sometimes).

The rule of starting low and working up is always a good one to follow. I am amazed you found an 82gr starting load!

 

[Pheroze]

I joined the loaddata.com as a way if getting more load data without buying more books (they also gave a free binder ) As you all know, we can't always get the powder we want! But now I am concerned about the accuracy of the data published on it. I was just reading up to determine which powder had the highest weight for volume as its starting load when I noticed this apparent problem.

 

[Velo Dog]

At the risk of being a party pooper on this subject of moose hunting, I submit the following:

Here in Alaska, the Speer Grand Slam, 285 gr bullet in .375 diameter made a big splash at first.

But soon, it fell from grace, because of erratic performance (too many failures to expand, mostly).

That bullet in .375 diameter, has been more or less replaced up here by the Swift A-Frame in 270 grain.

Perhaps a bit surprising as well, if not mundanely surprising (maybe not, whatever) is that the Remington 270 round nose factory load, in the green and yellow box, has always been very popular for moose and bear here (both grizzly and black bear).

I think it's about $50. or more a box now but back when I was hunting each fall here in Alaska, I think it was retailing for about $16. per box of 20.

 

[Divernhunter]

Speer #14 285gr GS--82gr-2645fps----84gr compressed--2697fps
Speer #13 ---same as above
Speer #10--285grGS--82gr--2318fps----84gr--2488fps AND 86gr--2662fps
Speer #9 show no 285gr bullet at all. This was before they came out with the GS bullet line.
All data is for 375H&H cartridge.
This is what my Speer manuals have. Yes the #10 shows a max of 86grs

 

[Pheroze]

Hi Velo Dog, I am always open to advice on bullets. The GS was available and the reviews did not seem so terrible. I have one more store to hit and I will see what I can find. Those suggestions both appeal.

Divernhunter, thank you for looking that up. I will probably go with a different powder, but would you mind telling us what the Speer manual lists the starting load is for 300gr over H414 in the Speer manual? Is it really 79gr? Just wanted to double check what is published on load data.com. Thanks

 

[Divernhunter]

300gr-79gr--2512fps---81gr--2575fps
This is for the 300gr TBBC SP and Solid in 375H&H
The loads are the same for H-414 and Win760----They are the same powder.

I also vote for the Swift A-Frame bullets. "I" would try the 250gr and then the 270gr A-Frame. I have the Swift manual if you need info.
Nosler Partition bullets would be my next choice.
They were said to improve the Speer GS bullets but I had poor performance with the first ones and never tried them again. The Swift and Nosler have been better for me.

 

[matt85]

not sure about the Speer GS but if it helps here is one of my choice loads for the 375 H&H

75gr of W760 (H414) under a 300gr Hornady BTSP. this yielded just over 2500 fps per my chronograph.

-matt

 

[Pheroze]

Thanks Matt85. The main reason for my post was that I did not realize that different sources would have such variances in their load data. The folks at loaddata.com got back to me and confirmed their Speer info was just as posted above. I take this whole experience as a warning that one has to be careful when using even published data!

 

[Diamondhitch]

Just curious why you would choose such a fast burning powder of your .375? is it a short barrel? H414 is a favorite for .223, 22-250 and such. Normally better performance can be had with slower powders in a cartridge of that size.

 

[matt85]

W760/H414 performs very well in the 375 H&H.

I wouldn't call it a fast burning powder as its more of a medium/slow powder. ive had good luck with it in most medium/large bore guns. im not sure what it is but 75gr of W760/H414 seems to be a magic number for a number of cartridges.

450/400 NE 3": 75gr of W760 under a 400gr A-Frame = around 2070 fps and shot well in my double.

416 RM: 75gr of W760 under a 400gr Interlock = around 2100 fps and is a comfortable light load that shoots to the iron sights on my rifle.

the only issue with W760/H414 is it has a reputation for being rather temperature sensitive. this, in my opinion makes it a rather poor choice for Africa.

-matt

 

[Pheroze]

I have a 22" barrel so I was thinking there may be an advantage with the faster burning powder. I also noticed that it required a large amount for volume and I read that was a good thing. Although, I was really just reading up on various options that were available and I would probably start with one of the more commonly recommended powders at first.

It is interesting that matt85 uses an amount lower than the start volume recommended by Speer!

 

[sestoppelman]

I like these powders and they are not fast powders, because they do the same job as others in similar burn range but take up less space in the case. More room for more powder and bigger boom!!!

 

[tarbe]

I think WW760/H414 are ideal burning rate for 270 and 300 gr in the H&H.

I have 16 pounds of that stuff in my loading room for a reason!

 

[Royal27]

I think WW760/H414 are ideal burning rate for 270 and 300 gr in the H&H.

I have 16 pounds of that stuff in my loading room for a reason!

Tim,

From what I know you have at least 16 lbs of EVERY POWDER in your loading room....

 

[tarbe]

No, not quite...but my obsessive powder buying days are over for now.

My obsessive land buying has just put a dent in my loading component and animal count plans!

Little Timmy has to be a good boy and stay off of Powder Valley and Nosler Shooter's Pro Shop! I am now officially land poor.