Help choosing a medium bore...

[Gunnie]

I have been searching all over on ballistics. However it seems that every search leads to opinions of varying performance. I am not planning a hunt to the dark continent anytime soon. However I have always wanted to go and hope that someday I may get to. In the mean time I want a rifle to curve my large caliber desire.

I've narrowed down the rifles to either a M70 Winchester Safari or a CZ550. Caliber chooses I'm stuck between are 375 H&H, 416 Rigby/416 Rem, or 458 Win Mag.

375 H&H from my research is more versatile at longer range and has a excellent selection of bullets.

458 Win Mag is a heavy hitter but some reading says it lacks in penetration.

416 seems to be an excellent blend of raw power and accuracy.

I reload so ammunition cost is going to be not a huge concern of mine as long as there is good bullet selection. Accuracy is going to be a relative item in that I don't shoot much beyond 100 yards and never beyond 200.

The reason I'm wanting a large rifle is that I have always lusted after one. The only reason I've listed both 416's is that the M70 comes in the Remington flavor and the CZ the Rigby.

So my question is based on experience which will be a better cartridge on large thick skinned game. Grizzly will probably be far more doable then Cape buffalo but I don't want to limit myself on a caliber that will make do on some game and be good on others.

All my research points to you all being knowledgable in these fields and you've got real world experience hunting things that hunt you back...

With what I have provided as to what I'm wanting which choose seems more reasonable? Amy questions regarding use or hopes I will gladly answer just keep in mind I may not be hunting anything with these just getting to own a medium or large bore and getting to take it to the range and shoot.

 

[Royal27]

So I think you've answered your own question in your post somewhere.

What is really more important to you?

1. Do you really just want a big bore to shoot? Get the .458!
2. Really looking for versatility? Can't beat the .375 H&H!
3. Want both of those things in one gun? That Rigby looks mighty fine then!

You really can't go wrong with any of your choices (caliber or rifle make). I personally started out with the H&H. It was the ONLY rifle I would ever need.... I now have a .458 Lott as well. LOL

And welcome to the forum!

 

[bassasdaindia]

if it is medium bore then I consider the 375 to be medium bore and I would take either the CZ 550 or the Winchester M70 safari express , the Winchester comes factory out of the box ready whilst the CZ 550 needs attention to get it ready in my opinion (I have both)

if it's larger than I suggest the 416 Rigby in CZ550 ...... great caliber

both 375 and 416 Rigby are great calibers , iam not familiar with the 416 Rem.

 

[bluey]

gday gunnie ,welcome to AH
either the 375 , or the 416 , are the better options , in my way of thinking .
saying this my biggest firearm is the 375 HH,and im very happy with it , when I can get it back from my youngest son.
if I was going step up to a bigger boomstik , I really cant see my self ever going past the 416.and that would be for buffalo ,here in Australia .
but if you JUST want a big boomer , get whatever you think you want .
let us all know what you choose and how if handles
enjoy the site.

 

[enysse]

The biggest myth in gun history, the 458 Win lacks power??? But the 45-70 is great for everything???

I'd probably get a .416 Rigby if I were you.

 

[dory]

gday gunnie ,welcome to AH
either the 375 , or the 416 , are the better options , in my way of thinking .
saying this my biggest firearm is the 375 HH,and im very happy with it , when I can get it back from my youngest son.
if I was going step up to a bigger boomstik , I really cant see my self ever going past the 416.and that would be for buffalo ,here in Australia .
but if you JUST want a big boomer , get whatever you think you want .
let us all know what you choose and how if handles
enjoy the site.

Dont you aussies go to sleep ?

 

[Gunnie]

What type of range should one expect with a heavy bullet in 416 as most are saying this is a good blend of both....

Thank you all so very much for your time to reply I appreciate insight from people in the field whom have experience with these things...

To Enysse I would have to whole heartedly agree that the 458 can't be nearly as lacking as many make it out to be. However I have never used it so I can't say what is unfounded and what is not.

My love of Peter Capstick and the lure of the dark continent made me want a DG rifle. It seems the 416 would be a good blend in a magazine rifle.

 

[bluey]

Dont you aussies go to sleep ?

yeah mate l will be tonight , just set the course home .

 

[enysse]

The 416 is good to 300yds with practice but I think 200 yds is more practical

 

[buffybr]

I started with a .375 H&H, then traded it in on a .375 RUM that I've used on two African hunts. I'm comfortable at 300 yards with it and I don't see a need for anything larger in my future.

 

[Gunnie]

I had not realized previously the cost of brass for the Rigby. I figured it was on par with the other two mentioned. With the cost of brass I believe I will be sticking with the 375 or 458. I am leaning more towards the 375 as it seems to be far more versatile. I suppose between the two. The rigby cartridge seems very promising however. I just hate to spend $45 on 20 pieces of rigby brass vs $55 on 50 pieces of H&H brass.

What do you gents think I feel I could shoot and be much more proficient with the other two over the rigby after reading some of your posts.

It also seems there is a larger following of H&H is this correct of me to assume?

 

[Royal27]

The .375 H&H is definitely the jack of all trades for Africa, much like the .30/06 in the states. The others are a little more specialized.

I think that is the reason for the large following. Is the .375 what I would want while being charged by a cape buffalo? No. But it is the rifle I would personally choose if I could only have one rifle to hunt the world with.

As I mentioned earlier, it is also the gateway drug to the true big bores.

 

[enysse]

416 Rem brass is cheap, that is why I own the 416 Rem over the .416 Rigby

 

[Gunnie]

Thank you all so much for your help I believe I shall stick to the 375 H&H. For now one day I hope to have a double rifle. However my large double for now will remain my 10 loaded with slug. LOL now that is a hoot to shoot. The 375 will probably only lead to more larger rifles I'm sure.

 

[Royal27]

Thank you all so much for your help I believe I shall stick to the 375 H&H. For now one day I hope to have a double rifle. However my large double for now will remain my 10 loaded with slug. LOL now that is a hoot to shoot. The 375 will probably only lead to more larger rifles I'm sure.

It did for me!!!!

 

[AZDAVE]

Since you said that you don't plan on DG in Africa any time soon and that Griz is most likely on your list go with the 375 and shoot it ALLLLLOTTTT. will kill griz and brownies as far as you care to shoot. Like everyone says it is the gateway drug to big bores, check out the big bore anonymous in the .375 and up part of the forum
Plus many times you can find a nice 416 or 458 that has all of 2 round shot out of the box that someone had to have and found it kicks a bit harder than their 270 off the bench. I have bough several big bore very cheap that way.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello Gunnie,

I am definitely +1 with others here on the .375 H&H.

Regarding the .416's, they are by reputation quite excellent for heavy/dangerous game but recoil is IMO very comparable/up there with the .458 Winchester.

Also, most folks don't consider the .458 as "Medium" Bore, but anyway do not believe that nonsense about the .458 Winchester not penetrating.

This is provided of course that you are using a heavy/tough bullet designed for the animal you are hunting - (just like any other cartridge choice).

In the 1950's and 60's, much of the ammunition for it only reached about 1850 to 1950 feet per second from a 22 inch barrel, reportedly not quite enough for huge grumpy elephants.

Also, the older design powders of those years tended to become one solid lump in hot weather, sometimes resulting in extremely low velocity, according what I have read about same.

IMO, today's .458 has been sorted out well and now possesses but one problem and that is recoil.

A large cause of that problem is that many .458 caliber rifles are built too light at 9 or a bit over 9 pounds.

I prefer my .458's to weigh about 11 pounds, empty/no sling.

Before any serious hunting trip I make it a point to get plenty of exercise and I loose at least 10 pounds, that way my rifle rides for free.

Likewise, I prefer the Lott version of .458 because it will fire the Winchester version ammunition as well, the same as shooting .38 Specials in a .357 Magnum revolver.

That way, if I ever get in a bind for ammunition, my chances of finding something that will work well in my rifle are greatly enhanced.

Be all of that as it may, I highly recommend that you simply do as old Velo has done ... as time goes along and you save up a little money here and there, buy a rifle here and a rifle there for each purpose imaginable, beginning with the .375 H&H because it is the most versatile (and it will not kick the stuffing out of you either so, you can practice, practice, practice and then practice some more).

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[sestoppelman]

Like Enysse says, if you want a .416, I would go with the Remmie, lots of components around, brass is cheaper than Rigby, its big but not too big etc. No one mentioned the .404 Jeffery! Now there's a round for ya! The .375 is of course the best choice for the one gun man, but what fun is that?!

 

[Norwegianwoods]

I would get a 375 Ruger or a 416 Ruger