Help, I won a partially covered hunt (Nzou Hunting Safaris) in South Africa

[Doubleplay]

Problem is when you ask for the price list, you'll never know if the price list given to you is tailored to your situation? Meaning inflated prices to make up for the daily fees.
I would stay away from such a hunt.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Without too much effort:

Tracking the phone number provided heads to "AB's" other job.
Likely the place/property you would be hunting in the NW province.
No prices here either.

There are Day rates 1x1 $350
https://www.southafricanhuntingsafari.co.za/contact

4 x10 x 350 = 14,000

Tacking on $4000 to the value of the day rates

The NZOU website has been around for how many days???

CONTACT EMAIL: Mia Steyn - the email noted to contact is also searching for work on a yacht out of Fort Lauderdale.

A huge pet peeve for me: "Emial" - You don't proof read your advertising.

The PH is licensed in Limpopo but hunting in North West and different province?

"M & A Suppliers" Agent to an Agent to an Outfitter.


Everybody has to start somewhere but holy cow. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Dinsdale]

I was thinking if nothing else this thread drove up google searches and views on the website for whoever this is…..must be thinking, “damn I’m getting lots of web traffic”. LOL

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Just out of curiosity. I sent them message asking for more information on there hunting and pricing.

No reply as of yet!

 

[BryceM]

The #1 for me is to check references…… from people who have actually paid to hunt with them. How were the trophies taken care of? How were the accommodations? What is the trophy quality? How were communications? I don’t really care as much about the food and lodging - I’m there to hunt, not spend time at a spa, but that’s just me.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I was thinking if nothing else this thread drove up google searches and views on the website for whoever this is…..must be thinking, “damn I’m getting lots of web traffic”. LOL

Wait until the traffic from name searches arrive at this AH thread more than their website. I'm sure that will be an exciting realization.

 

[IvW]

I found this posted on Facebook. It has some information that might help someone here figure out who these people are. I’ve never heard of them, which doesn’t mean much.

View attachment 655413

M&A Suppliers trading as.......

 

[Sabre]

Without too much effort:

Tracking the phone number provided heads to "AB's" other job.
Likely the place/property you would be hunting in the NW province.
No prices here either.

There are Day rates 1x1 $350
https://www.southafricanhuntingsafari.co.za/contact

4 x10 x 350 = 14,000

Tacking on $4000 to the value of the day rates

I'm never very surprised when the "Donated Value" is higher than a company's actual price for something they donated. I feel like more often than not, I see an inflated price in that regard.

Everything else about this company seems pretty sketchy though. Like you said though, everyone has to start somewhere. So maybe they are on the up and up. But I wouldn't want to be the one to test that out.

 

[Rare Breed]

$18000 value placed on accomidation/PH services/airport drop off, etc..etc.. seems very high for RSA unless we're talking a 5 star type lodge with exquisite meals served, etc..etc.. or perhaps a DG specific safari..

Thats essentially $450 per day, per person...

There are certainly lodges in RSA that charge those sort of rates (and are worth every penny to the people that frequent them).. but most of them are very well established and very well known I think..

None of this means I would automatically waive off this hunt... If youve already got accomidation covered for your party, great.. thats a cost you dont have to worry about...

But it would make me want to look very hard at the trophy price list to make sure that its not also inflated.. or to confirm whatever the going rate is for whatever animals Im interested in is "worth it" (I might be willing to pay a premium if I knew for example this particular place had rowland ward quality kudu or SCI gold nyala available... or if I knew I'd be hunting on a really large property... but Im not personally going to be interested in paying an inflated rate for "good representation of the species" on a small to medium sized piece of property where the experience is more of a "shoot" than a "hunt"...

For me.. if I were in the situation that the OP is in.. I think it would be worth a call to the outfitter just to feel out what I thought about things.. If I thought there was going to be a high pressure sale situation where Im going to be pushed to buy a lot of animals Im not interested in or cant afford.. or if I got wind of any sort of unprofessionalism, I'd probably hit the pause button....

But... if the guy on the other end of the phone seems reasonable and honest.. and is willing to let me hunt what I want and what I can afford, and was just trying to get someone onto the property to hunt and also do a good thing by donating an auction hunt.. then why not go and enjoy yourself?

If budget is a major concern, maybe ask about an opportunity to do some culls, or inquire about a "beginner" package and consider hunting some affordable animals like impala, blesbok, warthog, etc.. If the outfitter is open to this, then frankly getting 10 days of accomidation covered for you and 3 hunting buddies could be the deal of the century..

One other experience. Never is too strong a word but I can say every single donated hunt I have seen shows the auction value so much higher than what anyone could pay for the same hunt outside the auction. There are two exceptions I have seen; Rifles and leopard hunts.
Please remember all auction hunt donations have a portion of them going to the association such as DSC or SCI. By all means as has been stated:
1. Do pre work on the outfitter given both DSC and SCI publish in advance auction hunts.
2. Don’t let “value” of donation through you off…bidding has to start somewhere. I can’t tell you how many minimum bids don’t get any bids because people know they are too high to start

 

[migrabill]

I will say winning an Auction hunt is by no means a kiss of death every time. I had my introduction to Africa hunting through a hunt that I won at the Maryland Bowhunter's Society banquet. It was with Van Wjke Safaris out of RSA. The hunt was similar to the one that the OP is talking about in this post - it included lodging, day fees, 2 animals, housekeeping, laundry, food etc. Airport pick up and tips were not included. An ala carte menu for animals above and beyond the 2 that came with the hunt was provided. I had a WONDERFUL experience. Andries Van Wjke (the owner) was my PH. The lodge and food were absolutely first rate. Access to world class animals. I ended up taking 10 animals including the SCI Gold Medal Red hartebeest in my profile pic. I did a write up of the hunt on this forum. When I go back - it will most definitely be with the same outfitter. He became a friend.
Just putting it out there that not every "auction won" hunt is a disaster.

 

[JimP]

The #1 for me is to check references…… from people who have actually paid to hunt with them. How were the trophies taken care of? How were the accommodations? What is the trophy quality? How were communications? I don’t really care as much about the food and lodging - I’m there to hunt, not spend time at a spa, but that’s just me.

I have found that references are pretty much a waste of time checking.

Have you ever seen a bad review posted by the outfitter? With most references the people writing them act like they were on a 10 day luxury cruse. I've been burned by asking for them and even talking to those who were on hunts with the outfitter.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I have found that references are pretty much a waste of time checking.

Have you ever seen a bad review posted by the outfitter? With most references the people writing them act like they were on a 10 day luxury cruse. I've been burned by asking for them and even talking to those who were on hunts with the outfitter.

"Burned"? Can you explain?

 

[JimP]

"Burned"? Can you explain?

Quite simple, after talking to the outfitter and the references that they supplied and then finally getting into the area you find that the hunt isn't what the references implied.

I understand that hunting is hunting and there are no guarantee's but those who you talk to should also be more truthful on what to expect instead of talking the outfitter up..

I have yet talked to a outfitter who gave me any contact numbers or ways to contact those who were unsuccessful or unhappy with their hunts. Even on a couple of my hunts where everything hasn't been fantastic or I wasn't successful I have never been asked to supply a reference for a outfitter except for a time when I went back with the same outfitter and was successful with my hunt, shortly after that hunt I received a number of emails asking me about the hunt.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Quite simple, after talking to the outfitter and the references that they supplied and then finally getting into the area you find that the hunt isn't what the references implied.

I understand that hunting is hunting and there are no guarantee's but those who you talk to should also be more truthful on what to expect instead of talking the outfitter up..

I have yet talked to a outfitter who gave me any contact numbers or ways to contact those who were unsuccessful or unhappy with their hunts. Even on a couple of my hunts where everything hasn't been fantastic or I wasn't successful I have never been asked to supply a reference for a outfitter except for a time when I went back with the same outfitter and was successful with my hunt, shortly after that hunt I received a number of emails asking me about the hunt.

Thanks for clarifying. I have hunted with the same outfitter during four safaris (three different PHs). I have yet to be contacted by anyone referred by him. My safaris have all been satisfactory ... for me at least. A minor snafu the last time but nothing to lose sleep over. A few on here have asked for reference. I find it difficult to give one. Everyone's expectations are different. I only shot four animals the last trip (including one that was a mistake - the snafu). Still, I had a memorable time. Many might not consider that memorable. So I would prefer that my outfitter do his own advertising and it seems he prefers that too. They are doing a lot of business so I guess it works for him. When asked, I always ask what the prospective client expects. At least one inquiry ended right there. I could tell very quickly I did not want to be any part of referring that jerk to my outfitter/friend.

 

[mark-hunter]

Have you ever seen a bad review posted by the outfitter? With most references the people writing them act like they were on a 10 day luxury cruse. I've been burned by asking for them and even talking to those who were on hunts with the outfitter.

This thought has crossed my mind, many times.
Here is my 5 cents.
outfitter who has dozens of references is more likely to be respectable outfitter, then those with few references or none.

Even with positive references, you can get an information worthy for you. Fore example, you want total free range hunt, and a reference contact tells you "it was great, fenced area 2000 acres large, but plenty of animals..."
Or "it was great hunt, we visited many neighboring properties each day, not too far away from camp, only few hours drive..."
maybe you wont be thrilled to go there.

References can be misleading a bit, but it is better to have them then not to have them.

If you get in direct contact with person giving a reference you can ask anything what comes to your mind, so you can easily get "unfiltered" information of your interest.

But the best reference is from a friend. If a friend tells you, I was there, we hunted like that. It was great. Go there.

Finally this forum is reference. Vetted outfitters and forum sponsors, followed by many detailed reports by happy clients. Those who get bad reports, dont frequent here for long

 

[Ontario Hunter]

This thought has crossed my mind, many times.
Here is my 5 cents.
outfitter who has dozens of references is more likely to be respectable outfitter, then those with few references or none.

Even with positive references, you can get an information worthy for you. Fore example, you want total free range hunt, and a reference contact tells you "it was great, fenced area 2000 acres large, but plenty of animals..."
Or "it was great hunt, we visited many neighboring properties each day, not too far away from camp, only few hours drive..."
maybe you wont be thrilled to go there.

References can be misleading a bit, but it is better to have them then not to have them.

If you get in direct contact with person giving a reference you can ask anything what comes to your mind, so you can easily get "unfiltered" information of your interest.

But the best reference is from a friend. If a friend tells you, I was there, we hunted like that. It was great. Go there.

Finally this forum is reference. Vetted outfitters and forum sponsors, followed by many detailed reports by happy clients. Those who get bad reports, dont frequent here for long

Again, this is why I ask the prospective client what are his expectations. Personally, I found hunting different properties on the same safari quite enjoyable. Besides different scenery, I enjoyed meeting the farmers, usually lunching with their families. If the guy looking for reference is only interested in pretending he's on a wilderness hunt on 200K acres while riding around in a new Toyota truck, then the dialogue usually ends quickly.

 

[375Fox]

I have found that references are pretty much a waste of time checking.

Have you ever seen a bad review posted by the outfitter? With most references the people writing them act like they were on a 10 day luxury cruse. I've been burned by asking for them and even talking to those who were on hunts with the outfitter.

If checking references is a waste of time for you then you are asking the wrong questions. I haven’t had an outfitter yet provide me with salesman type references all were real hunters that had good experiences. I have had outfitters in North America supply me unsuccessful references as well, but I knowingly don’t expect any outfitter to provide unhappy references. I look for consistency of answers when I speak with references on phone. Even a hunter the had the best experience doesn’t know what you are looking for so he can’t cater his answers for you. If the answers about PHs, camp, properties, game numbers, etc vary from reference to reference it’s reason to investigate more or back away. If all you ask reference is did they have a good hunt then it’s a waste of both yours time, but if you ask right questions they will say a lot whether they realize it or not. I called references provided for a hunt I’m looking into 2 weeks ago. I spent 20-40 minutes on phone with each one. I think it’s impossible not to get quality information from that including comparisons of other locations and outfitters they’ve hunted with.

 

[Rare Breed]

I will say winning an Auction hunt is by no means a kiss of death every time. I had my introduction to Africa hunting through a hunt that I won at the Maryland Bowhunter's Society banquet. It was with Van Wjke Safaris out of RSA. The hunt was similar to the one that the OP is talking about in this post - it included lodging, day fees, 2 animals, housekeeping, laundry, food etc. Airport pick up and tips were not included. An ala carte menu for animals above and beyond the 2 that came with the hunt was provided. I had a WONDERFUL experience. Andries Van Wjke (the owner) was my PH. The lodge and food were absolutely first rate. Access to world class animals. I ended up taking 10 animals including the SCI Gold Medal Red hartebeest in my profile pic. I did a write up of the hunt on this forum. When I go back - it will most definitely be with the same outfitter. He became a friend.
Just putting it out there that not every "auction won" hunt is a disaster.

Very fair point. I had one of my best hunts ever for my Rhino with Wintershoek Safaris. I took five extra animals and experienced a five star experience and made lifelong friends. I will say mine came from a $250 raffle ticket not an auction but still a donated hunt.

 

[Doubleplay]

When you talk to references, first you should ask the person. if this was their first time in Africa and if not did they hunt with any other outfit?
If the answer to first question is yes and to second is no, say thanks and hang up.