Help Reloading the .375 Rimless Nitro Express

[The35Whelen]

Hello all! I recently acquired a William Evans 1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer in .375 Rimless Nitro Express. I managed to find 9.3 x 57 brass and .375 270 grain round nose Nosler partitions to reload with. I need dies which seems to be the weak link.
I messaged CH Tool and Die about reloading dies and they responded with a 2 year back-order time. My initial thought is purchasing the in stock Hornady 9.3x57 dies and use an RCBS .375 neck expander die to open the case mouth. I still need a bullet seating die though. Does anyone have recommendation on how to begin reloading without the caliber specific dies? Thank you!
I've attached photos and the rifle's sales description for anyone interested.

William Evans 1910 MS serial number 8491. Barrel marked “William Evans. 63. Pall Mall. London 14866”. Barrel has British proof marks. Folding leaf rear sight marked “300”. Top of receiver ring marked “.375 RIMLESS” – this cartridge is the British designation for the 9.5x65 MM MS cartridge. Bore is mostly bright with light frosting in the grooves. The rifle is fitted with a Paul Jaeger detachable scope mount. Floor plate is engraved “J. S. NEWALL. ONGAR ENGLAND”. The trigger guard is marked “14866” matching the number on the barrel. The serial numbers on the barrel, receiver, and bolt match. The stock has a hairline crack behind the tang, and it looks like it has been there a while. Horn butt plate and grip cap.

 

[93marlin]

Congratulations on winning the rifle! I was watching that auction for awhile. I didn't bid.
The cartridge, 9.5x56MS, has slightly different dimensions than the 9.3x57. the base is just different enough to cause a problem.
It can be made to fit, with a little work. Years ago I owned a Cogswell & Harrison made up on the Mannlicher Schoenauer action in 375 express.
It is an exercise in Internet searching to find dies and possibly factory brass. The stuff is out there though.
Good luck!

 

[93marlin]

FYI, try search for 375 x 2 1/2 express. Same cartridge.
Kynoch had made some ammunition in the past

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

FYI, try search for 375 x 2 1/2 express. Same cartridge.
Kynoch had made some ammunition in the past

The .375 2.5" Express is a straight sided, flanged, rimmed cartridge that is very different from the .375 2.25" Nitro Express _Rimless._

The M1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer takes 9.5X57 (DWM case #531), also known as 9.5X56, .375 Rimless Nitro Express, .375 2.25" Rimless.

 

[93marlin]

The .375 2.5" Express is a straight sided, flanged, rimmed cartridge that is very different from the .375 2.25" Nitro Express _Rimless._

The M1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer takes 9.5X57 (DWM case #531), also known as 9.5X56, .375 Rimless Nitro Express, .375 2.25" Rimless.

You are correct. I have a very dumb thumb sometimes.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hello all! I recently acquired a William Evans 1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer in .375 Rimless Nitro Express.

My initial thought is purchasing the in stock Hornady 9.3x57 dies and use an RCBS .375 neck expander die to open the case mouth.

Don't do that.

The 9.5X57 (.375 RNE) headspaces on a rather small shoulder which is in a different place (lower) and narrower than that of the 9.3X57. If you do use 9.3X57 brass it should first have the shoulder drawn straight prior to being resized through proper 9.5X57 dies.

Reed's Custom of Oklahoma makes and sells properly built 9.5X57 cartridges from 9.3X57 brass drawn straight, then resized.

You have a fine old Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910, why risk damaging it?

Find a set of 9.5X57 dies. They show up on Ebay from time to time and on other 'sites - be patient.

The brass that I have resized with great success for my M1910 was .35 Whelen, drawn through RCBS dies in a single pass, then cut to length. Dies were RCBS Group G, #637501.

Also, projectile choice is important. To function flawlessly they must be round nose and set to correct depth. There must be enough 'meat' at the top third of projectile to engage the machined portion of magazine housing. If too short or of wrong profile they will likely shift and / or tip into a void and jam.

Schoenauer Magazine (6.5X54)

Quality Cartridge now makes proper 9.5X57 brass:

Hunt for these. They have been out of production for about a decade now but fit just fine.

New cartridge from Reed's, one of my old handloads from .35 Whelen brass through RCBS dies and trimmed to length, original DWM 531, fired brass of .35 Whelen resized / trimmed to 9.5X57 specs. Note slight shoulders on which the 9.5X57 headspaces.


Build your cartridges precisely like this, they will feed flawlessly:

More information may be found here: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/mannlicher-schönauer-prewar-m1900-m1903-m1905-m1908-m1910-m1924-m1925-or-high-velocity.47277/

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

You are correct. I have a very dumb thumb sometimes.

Stuff happens.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

It is an exercise in Internet searching to find dies and possibly factory brass. The stuff is out there though.
Good luck!

Most vintage 'factory brass' will be Berdan primed. Quality Cartridge (Qual-Cart) produces proper 9.5X57 brass with Boxer primer pockets.

 

[The35Whelen]

Don't do that.

The 9.5X57 (.375 RNE) headspaces on a rather small shoulder which is in a different place (lower) and narrower than that of the 9.3X57. If you do use 9.3X57 brass it should first have the shoulder drawn straight prior to being resized through proper 9.5X57 dies.

Reed's Custom of Oklahoma makes and sells properly built 9.5X57 cartridges from 9.3X57 brass drawn straight, then resized.

You have a fine old Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910, why risk damaging it?

Find a set of 9.5X57 dies. They show up on Ebay from time to time and on other 'sites - be patient.

The brass that I have resized with great success for my M1910 was .35 Whelen, drawn through RCBS dies in a single pass, then cut to length. Dies were RCBS Group G, #637501.

Also, projectile choice is important. To function flawlessly they must be round nose and set to correct depth. There must be enough 'meat' at the top third of projectile to engage the machined portion of magazine housing. If too short or of wrong profile they will likely shift and / or tip into a void and jam.

View attachment 580866

View attachment 580861
Schoenauer Magazine (6.5X54)

View attachment 580864

Quality Cartridge now makes proper 9.5X57 brass:
View attachment 580868

Hunt for these. They have been out of production for about a decade now but fit just fine.
View attachment 580867

View attachment 580871
New cartridge from Reed's, one of my old handloads from .35 Whelen brass through RCBS dies and trimmed to length, original DWM 531, fired brass of .35 Whelen resized / trimmed to 9.5X57 specs. Note slight shoulders on which the 9.5X57 headspaces.


Build your cartridges precisely like this, they will feed flawlessly:
View attachment 580863



More information may be found here: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/mannlicher-schönauer-prewar-m1900-m1903-m1905-m1908-m1910-m1924-m1925-or-high-velocity.47277/

Brian,
Thank you for the in-depth and extremely helpful information! I have a plethora of .35 Whelen brass. Making ammo with Whelen brass shouldn't be an issue once I find dies. Until then I've sent an email to Reed's Custom Ammo as suggested. Hopefully we can work out an initial order of ammunition that'll tide me over until dies manifest in the wild.
Thanks again for the help!
Cody

 

[GuttormG]

Someone (Hornady?) makes universal seating dies.
Shouldn't be to much of a challenge to make one either, a friend with a lathe and a six-pack might do the trick.
It is also possible to make dies of epoxy (using a fire-formed case as master), will not last very long, but long enough to get you going.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Brian,
Thank you for the in-depth and extremely helpful information! I have a plethora of .35 Whelen brass. Making ammo with Whelen brass shouldn't be an issue once I find dies. Until then I've sent an email to Reed's Custom Ammo as suggested. Hopefully we can work out an initial order of ammunition that'll tide me over until dies manifest in the wild.
Thanks again for the help!
Cody

Reed's used Norma brass on mine.

Should survive several reloads.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Brian,

Thanks again for the help!
Cody

 

[SaintPanzer]

Buffalo Arms is currently showing out of stock on the dies, but it may be worth a call:

CH4D 9.5X57 Mannlicher- Schoenauer AKA 9.5x57 Mauser Reloading Die Set

These CH4D reloading dies are for the 9.5x57 Mannlicher Schoenauer also known as 9.5x57 Mauser and uses shell holder item number 4D40801SH sold separately. All products manufactured by CH4D are made in the USA by Americans at their Mount Vernon, Ohio plant. They also make every effort to...

www.buffaloarms.com

They do have brass:

9.5x57 Mannlicher Cases*

www.buffaloarms.com

Is it Hornady that will make a custom die? Perhaps another company with the correct reamers?

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

The Buffalo Arms image shows the same Remington - Peters .35 Whelen cases that I have used in the past to form 9.5X57 :

 

[The35Whelen]

Buffalo Arms is currently showing out of stock on the dies, but it may be worth a call:

CH4D 9.5X57 Mannlicher- Schoenauer AKA 9.5x57 Mauser Reloading Die Set

These CH4D reloading dies are for the 9.5x57 Mannlicher Schoenauer also known as 9.5x57 Mauser and uses shell holder item number 4D40801SH sold separately. All products manufactured by CH4D are made in the USA by Americans at their Mount Vernon, Ohio plant. They also make every effort to...

www.buffaloarms.com

They do have brass:

9.5x57 Mannlicher Cases*

www.buffaloarms.com

Is it Hornady that will make a custom die? Perhaps another company with the correct reamers?

Good looking out! I always forget about Buffalo Arms! I don't know why, but they just don't pop in my head when I'm looking for something.

 

[Huvius]

I’ve been down the same road as you with a Mauser 375 Express.
Rothhammer’s advice is right on and I have made cases from 8X57 as well as 30’06 which worked better since the irregularities one gets at the case mouth when expanding brass gets all trimmed back to square before sizing back down to spec.

It is a bonus that the Mauser doesn’t require the 270gr RN bullets but to be honest, I’ve only shot cast in my rifle so far.

I checked into how my Hornady 9.3X57 seat die worked with 300gr 375s in a 375 case (reformed 30’06) and it worked perfectly so I think you could simply do as you are thinking and give the 9.3 dies a try with a .375 expander.
May overwork your brass a bit but if using 30’06 rather than your 35 Whelen brass, still quite economical.

 

[SaintPanzer]

I'm not sure if any web site has the appropriate photos for their product.

It's been a while, but I purchased my CH4D 9.5X57 dies from Buffalo Arms, that's why they came to mind. Perhaps I had the last one they stocked?

In any case, long story, but I haven't reloaded for that weapon yet, with the exception of making a dummy round. What I do know is I'm having a slight problem with the die that I haven't figured out yet: I can seat the round (in this case a Woodleigh .375), but the crimp is not holding the bullet well. Not only will the feed ramp push the bullet into the case, but I can actually push it in by hand. I have measured the bullet with my micrometer, and it does measure out to .375... as did the ammunition I purchased from Dorfner. I don't know if the crimp is not correct (either the seating die or the crimping die), or if the sizing die is opening the case too much, but that's the problem I'm having. Brass is once fired Dorfner, which I believe he purchased from Horneber, which is no longer a going concern.

I noticed SHM still lists the case, but no idea who is importing, if anyone.

This reminds me I still need to find a go/no go cartridge gauge, for both this and my M1903. I have a simple gauge for the M1903, but I'd like to get a better one.

Oh, wait: I was poking around for a custom cartridge gauge, and found that Hornady will make you a custom die for about $200. They say SAMMI specs, but CIP specs are readily available too.

Custom Dies - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Custom Dies Manufactured to customer's specifications. Hornady® Manufacturing offers the advantage of making custom dies to your specifications. These custom manufactured dies are available in either our Custom Grade™ or Match Grade™...

www.hornady.com

 

[Huvius]

SaintPanzer, may I suggest that you take the expander plug, chuck it in a drill, and with some fine sandpaper reduce it slightly so it doesn’t open up the neck so much.
Or, alternatively, swap the expander with another 375 (if you have one) and see if that makes a difference.
One other option is to leave the expander out and see what the neck ID is full length sizing without it.
Maybe a simple flare at the mouth is all you need to get the bullet started and if that works neck tension will certainly be adequate.

 

[uplander01]

Interesting project, neat little rifle.

 

[The35Whelen]

I'm not sure if any web site has the appropriate photos for their product.

It's been a while, but I purchased my CH4D 9.5X57 dies from Buffalo Arms, that's why they came to mind. Perhaps I had the last one they stocked?

In any case, long story, but I haven't reloaded for that weapon yet, with the exception of making a dummy round. What I do know is I'm having a slight problem with the die that I haven't figured out yet: I can seat the round (in this case a Woodleigh .375), but the crimp is not holding the bullet well. Not only will the feed ramp push the bullet into the case, but I can actually push it in by hand. I have measured the bullet with my micrometer, and it does measure out to .375... as did the ammunition I purchased from Dorfner. I don't know if the crimp is not correct (either the seating die or the crimping die), or if the sizing die is opening the case too much, but that's the problem I'm having. Brass is once fired Dorfner, which I believe he purchased from Horneber, which is no longer a going concern.

I noticed SHM still lists the case, but no idea who is importing, if anyone.

This reminds me I still need to find a go/no go cartridge gauge, for both this and my M1903. I have a simple gauge for the M1903, but I'd like to get a better one.

Oh, wait: I was poking around for a custom cartridge gauge, and found that Hornady will make you a custom die for about $200. They say SAMMI specs, but CIP specs are readily available too.

Custom Dies - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Custom Dies Manufactured to customer's specifications. Hornady® Manufacturing offers the advantage of making custom dies to your specifications. These custom manufactured dies are available in either our Custom Grade™ or Match Grade™...

www.hornady.com

It'll be interesting to see if I have similar issues once I track down dies. I appreciate the heads up on the Hornady custom dies. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what happens.