Hunters being "Canned"

[TokkieM]

Anyone that has been following the latest news will now about "Blood Lions" which will change the lion hunting in SA forever.

As if things could not get worse for hunters we got the collerd cat fiasco to exclamate the issue of Trophy Hunting. Whatever happens,guilty or not,it is going to have far reaching consequences for us.

Banning of Elephant from Zim and Taz coupled with the closing of Botswana the last year or so and now even Zim changing their rules and regulations we are being boxed in more and more,effectively being canned to hunt only several African countries.

What are the complications of this to Trophy Hunters,PH's and Outfitters alike? Here is my POV.

I was going to book a Hippo in SA for 2016,but surprise surprise the price of Hippo jumped a fair bit from 2014 to 2015,why? Well simply put to me is that there has been a greater demand for them due to several countries being labeled closed or undesirable to hunt,not because of safety issues,but because hunters want to take several species including Hippo in one safari. Some species cannot be exported from certain countries and others are just to expensive,so SA becomes viable.

The knock on effects of "canning" hunters has just started and I for one am convinced that it is going to hit us far harder than we expect. Countries were you can legally export certain trophies from are becoming less.Trophy Hunter profiles shows a slow down in entry level hunters,effectively making return hunters to Africa a larger part of the Trophy Hunter demographic. In turn this is increasing the demand for non typically first time species,which is normal.

Moz,Zam,SA and Namibia seems to be the way forward in "Affordable,Safe" hunting,especially Big Game hunting and I am sure the PH's/Outfitters are happy with this.
Is this good for Hunters? I don't believe so,but only time will tell.

Anytime you have a large population or demographic restricted to a smaller area prices get inflated and quality suffers and before my head gets ripped off by the Outfitters/PH you guys are going to be in the same boat,tenders for blocks are going to escalate in price and number of competitors will increase,which does not mean quality will improve.

There are some dark clouds brewing and I don't like it much,anyone else see it the same or otherwise?

 

[enysse]

This is the consequences of restricted hunting, costs go up and number of hunters go down. Wages don't keep up with inflation caused by anti hunter stupidity. I knew hunting was going to come to an end I was just hoping it would take another 20 years.....I really blame our liberal media for all of this BS.

 

[matt85]

im already trying to figure out how to borrow enough money and time to combine my two remaining big game desires (elephant and hippo) for next year. I fear if I wait till 2018 (originally planned) or even 2017 I may not get that chance. sadly both "money" and even tougher to get "time" may not be available so I will probably have to pick one and hope the bunny huggers don't prevent me from getting the other later.

it seems like the idiot masses are always trying to take away my joys in life. my first hobby was firearms which are under constant threat by people who fear objects more then people. my second hobby is hunting which seems to become more difficult every day due to bunny huggers. perhaps I should become a drug addict or maybe a useless mooch or both... these hobbies seem to be very acceptable in my country.

sorry I needed to rant a little.

-matt

 

[harden]

Pass this on to every hunter to use...

https://www.oximity.com/user/Dr.-Rosie-Clooney-1
Dr. Rosie Clooney is Chair of the Sustainable Use and Livelihoods Specialist Group at the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN).

Zimbabwe: R.I.P Cecil the Lion. What Will Be His Legacy? and Who Decides?

OPINION

By Dr. Rosie Clooney

London — Cecil the lion, a magnificent senior male, much loved and part of a long-term research project, was lured out of a safe haven in Zimbabwe's Hwange National Park last week and apparently illegally shot, to endure a protracted death.

As the global outrage pours out, consider for a moment that trophy hunting has now been banned across Africa. Trophy hunting is the limited "high value" end of hunting, where people (often the wealthy and mainly Westerners) pay top dollar to kill an animal. In southern Africa it takes place across an area close on twice the sum total of National Parks in the region.

Hwange Park staff numbers have been radically cut, and there is little money for cars or equipment for protection. Bushmeat poaching is on the rise and the rangers are ill equipped to cope.

It arouses disgust and revulsion - animals are killed for sport - in some cases (such as lions) the meat not even eaten. Even the millions of weekend recreational hunters filling their freezers are uncertain about trophy hunting.

It seems to have little place in the modern world, where humanity is moving toward an ethical position that increasingly grants animals more of the moral rights that humanity grants (in principle at least) to each other.

So let us move now through the thought bubble where the EU and North America ban import of trophies, Namibia, South Africa, Zimbabwe and others ban trophy hunting, the airlines and shipping lines refuse to carry trophies, and the industry dies a slow (or fast) death, ridding the world of this toxic stain on our collective conscience

We turn to survey southern Africa, proud of what we have achieved by our signing of online petitions, our lobbying of politicians, our Facebook shares and comments.

Did we save lions? Have we safeguarded wildlife areas? Have we dealt the death blow to trafficking of wildlife? Have we liberated local communities from imperialistic foreign hunters?

Let's go back to Hwange National Park, the scene of Cecil's demise. The Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority, responsible for managing this and other National Parks, is now in trouble.

It derived most of its income for protection, conservation and management of wildlife across the country from trophy hunting, with minimal revenue from central government (not well known for its good governance and transparent resource allocation).

Hwange Park staff numbers have been radically cut, and there is little money for cars or equipment for protection. Bushmeat poaching is on the rise and the rangers are ill equipped to cope. The commonly used wire snares are indiscriminate, and capture many lions and other predators who die agonizing and pointless deaths.

In Namibia, more than half of the communal conservancies (covering 20 percent of the country) have collapsed, because the revenue from non-hunting sources (such as tourism) is not enough to keep them viable and they have not been able to find alternative sources of income.

Namibia's communal conservancies are an innovation of the 1990s, and have been responsible for dramatic increases in a wide range of wildlife species outside of national parks including elephant, lion, and black rhino. Income from trophy hunting and tourism has encouraged communities to turn their land over to conservation.

Communities retain 100 percent of benefits from sustainable use of wildlife, including hunting - almost 18 million Namibian dollars in 2013. This money was spent by communities on schools, healthcare, roads, training, and the employment of 530 game guards to protect their wildlife.

Almost two million high protein meals a year were a by-product of the hunting. Now this is all gone. A few conservancies managed to find wealthy philanthropic donors to prevent them going under - but they cross their fingers that the generosity will continue to flow for decades to come.

Game guards are unemployed, unable to feed their families, looking for any opportunity to obtain some income. Communities are angry - they were never asked by the world what they thought about this. Few journalists or social media activists ever reflected their side of the story. Conservation authorities and communities are again becoming enemies.

Where the conservancies have collapsed, the wildlife is largely wiped out. The bad old days pre-reform have returned, and wildlife is worth more dead than alive.

Hungry bellies are fed with poached bushmeat and the armed poaching gangs have moved in - communities are no longer interested in feeding information to police to help protect wildlife, game guard programmes have collapsed for lack of funds and have spare targeted to supply the criminal syndicates, and rhino horns, lion bone, and ivory are being shipped out illicitly to East Asia.

In South Africa, trophy hunting has stopped, including the small proportion that was "canned". On the private game ranches that covered some 20 million hectares of the country, though, revenues from wildlife have effectively collapsed.

Those properties with scenic landscapes that are close to major tourist routes or attractions and have good tourism infrastructure are surviving on revenues from phototourism, but gone are the days of expanding their wildlife asset base by buying land and restocking this with additional wildlife. Most of the other landowners have returned to cattle, goats and crop farming in order to educate their children, run a car, pay their mortgages.

Wildlife on these lands has largely gone along with its habitat - back to the degraded agriculture landscapes that prevailed before the 1970s when wildlife use by landholders (including hunting) became legal here.

Lions that were on these farmlands are long gone, and the few that remain in national parks are shot as problem animals as soon as they leave the park. The great conservation success story of South Africa is rapidly unraveling.

Speculative? Yes, but a reasonable prediction, because this has happened before. Bans on trophy hunting in Tanzania 1973-1978, Kenya in 1977 and in Zambia from 2000-2003 accelerated a rapid loss of wildlife due to the removal of incentives for conservation. Early anecdotal reports suggest similar patterns are already happening in Botswana, which banned all hunting last year.

Let us mourn Cecil, but be careful what you wish for.

 

[Royal27]

I don't know that I see it that differently, but I don't think it will be as drastic as some do.

I don't think hunting will be outlawed everywhere, or that it will be across the board. Look at Tanzania and Zambia. They outlawed hutning and it came back, although Kenya didn't.

Now will some game animals be outlawed some places and will some countries continue to ban imports? I think so, although that will probably ebb and flow too.

Non-hunters outnumber us, but I don't know that the antis do. And I know that hunting isn't very high on a lot of people's agenda. And at least here in the U.S. our government can/t/won't make changes that the majority agrees on, much less something like hunting.

Don't take me wrong, we can't let our guard down and this isn't a good time, but I don't think we are at doomsday yet. Call me optimistic....

 

[ActionBob]

I question whether the prices of hunts can go up a lot more as the OP suggests may happen.. I think there is already a lot of push back, just look at all the hunts on that pop up on sale.. There are more and better deals posted on other boards so I'm not just talking about here. I winced and wondered about the business sense when an outfitter told me his deal with landowners is that his prices on Trophy Fees will go up 7% per year for the next few years... With wages increasing in the US closer to half that, and economies Worldwide still faltering, I wonder if that guy might end up pricing himself out business or will have to make a lot less for himself.

I think that minister from Zambia made it pretty clear that big cat hunting is coming back there. Tanzania seems to be recognizing the value of hunting to that country. Namibia seems to have found a model of real success so hard to believe they will throw that out. I don't trust anything out of the Governments of RSA and Zimbabwe and really question whether the current powers that be can make sound decisions... But I'm not ready to give up hope completely that more rational people may regain traction in those places. So yes we will see some ups and downs, but there will still be opportunities and I just don't see how they can price out the middle class completely and stay in business.

Right now today there are elephant, lion, leopard, certainly buffalo and even some rhino hunting opportunities available to anyone who truly prioritizes such goals, earns a respectable living and is willing to plan and budget wisely to accomplish such goals.

Matt, you are obviously doing very well for a young man who has been able to spend what you have on guns and to be able to go on a buffalo hunt already... Your way ahead of anything I could have done at your age. As you mention, guns have been your first priority and hunting second. If those had been reversed I think you would have already been at least 2/3rds through that priority list.... But your doing it your way and there is nothing wrong with that.... You are very young, give yourself a break. Don't get too down about this hype. There will be opportunities still available to you.

 

[KVS]

Stand tall and hold your head high as a hunter. Be proud of what you do and what you know is right. Times may seem dark now by it's the unity of the hunting community that will prevail.

As long as Outfitters continue to hold high standards of service and quality over price increases and hunters or potential clients still hold faith in the fact that they are contributing positively to conservation then the hunting industry will remain strong.

Things will improve, hunting is true conservation.

All the best
Jono

 

[TokkieM]

Guys,I am not signaling the death of Trophy Hunting. What I can say is that DG hunting prices are not going down and the demand for DG hunts won't decrease. The options open to us as far as were we can hunt is however decreasing. Since Botswana closed there has been an increase in hunters going to SA to do Buff and to a extent Elephant and Hippo,the prices have increased accordingly. With Zim now being in the spotlight and certain species being non exportable from there,choice becomes less and I am sure price will go up as the market demand increases or stays the same.
Many species will remain on the huntable list,just not the affordable list.

 

[thi9elsp]

Hunthardsarafis - I totally agree with your thesis and observations. I went on my first and only safari in 2011. An auction hunt. The subsequent next two years saw a 10% increase each year in the auction price of the same hunt. I now see elephant (which I dream of doing) out pricing what I thought I might be able to do. I thought it might be able to happen in 2017. But, if Zim doesn't open back up for importation to the US, SA is probably my only option. And, I expect those prices to continue to rise. So, I'm already looking at how I might change my plans. Maybe Vic Falls and buffalo in Zambia or Zim (again)?

 

[bluey]

talking to the markets on the way into port this morning , the agents said about poor old cecil and the spotlight being put on hunters all over the globe , every body is talking about it down here it seems , ive spoken to maybe eight people in the last week and seven of them have brought it up ......
im just standing my ground and speaking slowly and clearly to each and all dickheads , that l come across in the next 16 hours im in port and trying to get the few facts im aware of out on the table .....
but there going to a be a new era in hunting and l cant see it being that bright ,that we are going to need sunglasses ....

 

[TokkieM]

but there going to a be a new era in hunting and l cant see it being that bright ,that we are going to need sunglasses ....

My point exactly,not only about if we can hunt and what we can hunt but also where we can hunt. I am sure PG hunting will pretty much remain the same,but DG hunting is going to change completely.

 

[enysse]

Top prices have already dramatically increased, I don't want to whine too much but less than 10 years ago cape buffalo could be hunted for $5000, female elephants less than $5000, hippo was $1000-2000. Leopard hunt in a good area $10000-12000. Lion was creeping up but 15 years ago in Zim you could have very grand safari with lion and leopard for $25000. To further add sour grapes to the whole thing wages have not doubled and thanks to political BS, a lot of companies in my state have done away with health insurance so you have to buy it separate with a big deductible policy. So, for me yes my plains game hunting will be affordable to the middle class. The highly prized animals are sky rocketing....with Zim stopping lion, leopard and elephant hunting prices are going to go up. Botswana will never reopen, and I'm not sure how long Zambia will remain open. And Tanzania, thanks to the government not the outfitters has been very bad in pricing since 2008, before then they were highly competitive.
Again, I'm stating facts, a lot of my friends have quit hunting over in Africa all together. I won't but I will be more selective and based on the economic condition and may skip hunting the glory species.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Well we will adjust and move on. The markets will go up and they will go down. Look at Sable as they recover the price will go down as more outfitters offer hunts for them. I know guys in Moz are doing great things for elephants, quotas go up, prices will do down. Lions will come under fire, prices will go up, demand will slow down, prices will come down. Look at North American species, Snow geese had thousands of acres set aside for their recovery. They recovered so well there is a no limit, electric calls, plugs out season in most place. Nevada desert big horn, had an ewe season for the first time with 50 tags being given out. Wolfs 10 years ago were a dream, now we are begging for permits.

I once was harassed by an animal rightist while hunting, he told me he was going to get the hunting area closed down and there would be no more duck hunting there. I guess he thought this would get a reaction from me. Instead I said fine by me, I will just find someplace else and something new to hunt, and when you close that one down, I will just find another place or something else.

My point being, Its in us, and there is enough of us and we spend enough money that there will always be something to hunt somewhere.

 

[James.Grage]

It will get real interesting what our current administration does.

I am thinking some real rule changes are coming up.

 

[UNT2007]

Maybe I am being way too optimistic, but I don't see the huge outrage over this that the media has been portraying.
Seems to be mainly the goof nuts on social media and celebrities. I have only seen two friends on Facebook say something about this. I get the feeling the average person doesn't care and is probably tired of hearing about it.

 

[enysse]

I unfortunately had to listen to all the BS on CNN and every local news station making a big deal out of it. Then go over to facebook and had to see all the crazies calling for hunters head. I was told by friends to love my enemy.....I told them that is not possible. I hate people that are ignorant about all the good hunters do and think the real heroes are those hypocrites "the anti-hunters".

I don't see a bright future for hunting...nope not at all.

 

[thi9elsp]

IF (emphasis on purpose) it gets to complex, difficult to do what I want in Africa. Then my fall back is something in the US such as Brown Bear or Dalls Sheep. Or, maybe Argentina.

 

[matt85]

even the people at my local gun range came after me today about this stupid lion. after some failed attempts of trying to give them the correct information only to have them tell me i was wrong, i just gave up. its a sad day when even the shooting community is on the side of the bunny huggers!

-matt

 

[enysse]

It's because your one of those no good trophy hunters Matt. Welcome to the club.

 

[matt85]

It's because your one of those no good trophy hunters Matt. Welcome to the club.

lol im something even worse then a trophy hunter... im a sport hunter, i dont even require trophies! im a "monster" who is willing to hunt and kill something for absolutely no physical gain.

-matt