Hunting dangerous game with sub-375 cartridges?

[Northern Shooter]

From my understanding not every country has the minimal 375 (or 9,3) caliber restrictions in place for hunting dangerous game. It sounds like some restrictions are based on energy requirements.

I'm curious to hear if anyone here has hunted dangerous game with smaller cartridges than the 375/9.3

I'm guessing that some of the large 30 and 338 cartridges would be contenders here. I'm thinking of the likes of 300 WM, 300H&H, 300 Norma Mag, 300 RUM, 338 WM, 338 Lapua Mag, 338-378 Weatherby, 340 Weatherby, 358 Norma Mag etc.

What have you hunted and what cartridge did you hunt with? How did it perform?

 

[Safari Dave]

I think you would be fine for the cats, especially leopard. Most .375 bullets are constructed for too much penetration to expand properly for leopard.


For the thick-skinned animals, it is almost too much trouble to find factory loads with sub-.375 caliber bullets. Especially when solids are needed.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

2 man eating Royal Bengal tigers with 12 gauge shotgun (loaded with Eley Alphamax LG shell)- First tiger lived for 7 hours after getting shot. Second tiger lived for 4 hours after getting shot.
1 with 7x57mm Mauser (loaded with Winchester Super X 175Gr soft point)- Tiger lived for 3 hours after getting shot.

In Africa,
1 leopard with .30-06 Springfield (loaded with Remington Core Lokt 220Gr soft point)- Leopard dropped to the shot.
1 leopard with 7x57mm Mauser (loaded with Winchester Super x 175Gr soft point)- Leopard dropped to the shot.
1 leopard with .300 Winchester Magnum (loaded with Nosler Partition 200Gr soft point)- Leopard dropped to the shot.

 

[eyedok]

Killed a buffalo w a .300 HH, 180 Barnes Triple Shock, buffalo went about 100 yards and died, just like all the others w bigger calibers

 

[eyedok]

Leopard with a 30-06, 170gr FN (for .30-30)
Lion with a 300 HH 180 Barnes TSX

 

[mdwest]

depends on what DG youre talking about... and if we are talking exclusively about Africa?

my wife took a massive croc with a 35 Whelen (member of the Dangerous 7.. but not one of the "Big 5")...

Ive got a buddy thats taken numerous argentinian buffalo with a 338 WM.. Several of the guys from Oz that post on AH have mentioned taking australian buff with smaller calibers than 375 H&H...

For cats, I'd be comfortable hunting with something smaller than a 375.. as long as the right bullet/rifle combination is being used...

but for the big/thick boys... buff (the only of the Big 5 I've taken to date), ele, rhino, hippo, etc.. for me its going to be a 375 or bigger.. even if the law in a certain area might allow me to use something smaller..

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Killed a buffalo w a .300 HH, 180 Barnes Triple Shock, buffalo went about 100 yards and died, just like all the others w bigger calibers

What country?

 

[Rare Breed]

View attachment 530658View attachment 530659View attachment 5306602 man eating Royal Bengal tigers with 12 gauge shotgun (loaded with Eley Alphamax LG shell)- First tiger lived for 7 hours after getting shot. Second tiger lived for 4 hours after getting shot.
1 with 7x57mm Mauser (loaded with Winchester Super X 175Gr soft point)- Tiger lived for 3 hours after getting shot.

In Africa,
1 leopard with .30-06 Springfield (loaded with Remington Core Lokt 220Gr soft point)- Leopard dropped to the shot.
1 leopard with 7x57mm Mauser (loaded with Winchester Super x 175Gr soft point)- Leopard dropped to the shot.
1 leopard with .300 Winchester Magnum (loaded with Nosler Partition 200Gr soft point)- Leopard dropped to the shot.

In 2025 I will be taking my Rigby in 275 Rigby on my leopard hunt with the appropriate bullet with Swaro illuminated scope

 

[Rare Breed]

375 for my lion and 470 NE for buff and elephant

 

[Red Leg]

Bill Jones has an incredible collection of rifles of mind boggling provenance. He took Frederick Courteney Selous's (yes, that Selous) H&H falling block 6.5x53R (.256) to Mozambique which has no minimum for DG. In the Zambezi Delta swamp, accompanied by Craig Boddington, Bill put a 6.5 into a buffalo at 70 yards. To quote Boddington:

"How smart this was I leave you to judge. According to Bell, Stigand, Lyell, and Selous himself, no problem. According to perhaps the last 80 years of conventional wisdom, not a good idea. Mitigating factors: Bill had good modern solids that would almost certainly hold together and penetrate. We would hunt in the Marromeu swamps, where the shooting is very open (and Bill could pick his shot with care). And between PH Craig Hamman and me, there'd be plenty of backup if needed.

Backup was not needed, however. Bill's "Selous buffalo" was one of the most amazing things I've seen, It took a lot of maneuvering to get the 70-yard shot. The report was mild and the whap of the bullet hitting was of an unfamiliar slapping sound. The bull turned into the herd, they ran 100 yards and then the stricken bull lay down. He got up again, went another 40 and went down for good. The little bullet entered just behind the shoulder and exited the same place on the other side."

I totally agree with the not a good idea or particularly smart observation, but to quote one of our elder statesman members @Velo Dog "I suppose you could kill a buffalo with a frozen herring - but why would you want to?"

 

[DLSJR]

I‘ve shot a couple leopards with smaller, 300 & 338 Win Mags, but leopards are easy to kill and those were a lot more gun than needed.

I’ve only used 375 and bigger for buffalo and elephants, but since Mozambique allows smaller I’ll likely shoot a Buffalo there with my 338 next year, just because I’ve always wanted to shoot one with my 338. I figure a 225 grain TTSX would do a good job as long I take a reasonable angle shot. One PH I’ve discussed using my 338 for buffalo told me that his clients have shot 8 or 9 buffalo with a 338 and nobody had any problems. Just put a good bullet in the right place.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

In 2025 I will be taking my Rigby in 275 Rigby on my leopard hunt with the appropriate bullet with Swaro illuminated scope

Excellent. I highly recommend you have Hendershots Custom Loading Services load you up some cartridges with 175Gr Hornady Interlock or Nosler Partition bullets. Absolutely fantastic for leopard.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Another interesting bit of information for the OP.

A long time ago, a local (African) friend used 200Gr Nosler Partitions in a .30-06 Springfield to shoot several Cape buffalo for the butcher at the Wankie colliery to feed the workers. He reported that they worked wonders if a perfect broadside shot behind the shoulder was taken. But also said that it’s suicide to attempt to use any Nosler Partitions (regardless of caliber) for frontal shots on Cape buffalo. I’m inclined to believe him.

This same gentleman also took down 8 elephant bulls (all with brain shots) by using his .30-06 Springfield (loaded with Kynoch 220Gr round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solids). This was In Zimbabwe, back in the Rhodesia days.

 

[BeeMaa]

Personal hunting experience and experience hunting the intended game can be an important factor in using something smaller than the recommended .375/9.3mm, as in the case of Bill Jones. He’s experienced and knows his firearm.

Another thing is modern cartridges, bullets, powders and primers to increase the performance of the smaller bores. I know one of the Aussie guys on here regularly shoots water buffalo with .30 caliber Woodleigh Hydros.

What you choose to do will depend on what’s legal in the hunting area for the intended game and go from there with your level of experience and chosen firearm.

I’ll stick with my 375H&H for just about everything.

 

[SRvet]

I really don’t understand the desire to use smaller than ideal cartridges, especially on DG where things can go south very quickly. It’s all very well picking your shot to start the engagement but if the first bullet deflects or the animal moves it could easily result in a wound. Now this could of course happen with any calibre but you could then be faced with making a shot at a retreating buffalo/hippo/ele from a horrible angle with a totally inadequate firearm. It sounds like a good way to either get someone hurt or at least have the PH kill your animal for you.

 

[uplander01]

I guess small calibers can do a lot with a skillful hunter, good shot placement, and a proper projectile. I’m the opposite viewpoint of this thread, I’d rather get good with a big caliber, get close, and punch as big a whole as possible.

 

[Philip Glass]

I really don’t understand the desire to use smaller than ideal cartridges, especially on DG where things can go south very quickly. It’s all very well picking your shot to start the engagement but if the first bullet deflects or the animal moves it could easily result in a wound. Now this could of course happen with any calibre but you could then be faced with making a shot at a retreating buffalo/hippo/ele from a horrible angle with a totally inadequate firearm. It sounds like a good way to either get someone hurt or at least have the PH kill your animal for you.

I agree. I just don't see the point. People always point out Bell or others from the past who used smaller calibers on DG but they were professionals culling daily not amateurs trophy hunting. My thoughts tend to lean towards advising people interested in Africa to acquire a .375. Then use it for as much as you can here at home and dream of Africa!

 

[SRvet]

I agree. I just don't see the point. People always point out Bell or others from the past who used smaller calibers on DG but they were professionals culling daily not amateurs trophy hunting. My thoughts tend to lean towards advising people interested in Africa to acquire a .375. Then use it for as much as you can here at home and dream of Africa!

Oddly enough I am currently listening to “Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter” by Karamojo on audiobook whilst driving. He certainly did use small calibres, especially the 7x57 for much of his shooting but also used larger bore rifles when needed. He made some comment early on about the 6.5mm being less effective and being used more for smaller game. I get the impression that he was a very cool headed marksman with exceptional spatial awareness regarding how to place a bullet in the brain of an elephant. I also wonder if the population of elephant he hunted was more naive regarding the use of firearms compared to today?

 

[Ridgewalker]

375 H&H is the maximum recoil I can handle with my old body. Paying $10k for a Cape Buff killed or wounded and runs off lost, I’ll use the biggest I can handle.
Most rifles/ammo are a cheap part of a special trip to Africa. If I could take the beating of a 470 NE, that’s what I would carry. JMO good or bad. Others here have a lot more experience though than me.

 

[Nhoro]

Most of the elephants culled in Zimbabwe were shot with 7.62 Nato and fmj military ball ammo. They culled young bulls and females with the 7.62 (basically a .308) and big bulls with a variety of big bores (375 and 458 win mag mainly). It has been done. But as others have said, why ?