Impala bullet info needed

[Ontario Hunter]

I see Impala Bullets of South Africa makes not one but two sub 300 gr bullets for 404 Jeffery. Their website has very thorough loading information but only in a powder unavailable here (presumably also RSA). I am intrigued. A 250 gr 404J bullet flying at 2500 fps might have great potential as a plains game or even North American deer cartridge. Recoil should be, relatively speaking, mild, especially out of my ten pound rifle. Its 24" barrel should provide some yardage. Perhaps 238 gr would be a bit too light unless throttled down. Or it would be okay I guess for management culling (oversize varmint hunting) where meat preservation is not necessarily a priority.

Anyone have experience with Impala Bullets? Is there a North American retailer?

 

[Wyfox]

Another US made option for you that may be easier to get

.423 Cal-307gr Stone Hammer™ - Hammer Bullets

This 307gr pure copper Stone Hammer™ was designed for the modern 404 Jeffery. At this weight, muzzle velocity in the neighborhood of 2800 fps should be easily achievable. This will make a devastating combo for big game and dangerous game.

hammerbullets.com

 

[Hunter-Habib]

One of my white hunters is extremely fond of using the 600Gr .510 caliber round nosed flat point Impala solid in his .500 A Square (custom built on a BRNO ZKK-602 action by Bloemfontein Rifles). He swears by this bullet for elephant hunting, as well as hippopotamus on land. I'd be more than happy to get you in touch with him.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I

Another US made option for you that may be easier to get

.423 Cal-307gr Stone Hammer™ - Hammer Bullets

This 307gr pure copper Stone Hammer™ was designed for the modern 404 Jeffery. At this weight, muzzle velocity in the neighborhood of 2800 fps should be easily achievable. This will make a devastating combo for big game and dangerous game.

hammerbullets.com

Picked up a dozen of these to try. They didn't group out of my gun. Maybe they'll work if I can try a different load/powder.

 

[mooze]

you are looking for light for caliber monolithics

there are several companies, unfortunately none in Canada, that make light for caliber monolithics and drive band bullets. They usually perform very well on lighter game and turn a 9.3 or a 416 into a middle distance gun. Listing below with no aspiration to completeness.

GS custom/SA now defunct and not yet resurrected AFAIK, used to ship to CAN
AERO bullets/Styria arms, Austria, ships to CAN
SAX-KJG, Germany ( may ship to CAN)
Johannsen-GM MJG ( the original brass solids, )
Gian-Marchet, Switzerland
OK+ Jugoslavia, brass monolithics, MJG knock-off, better tip, good and cheap, may ship to CAN

Prophet river imports Northfork toCanada, but those are not really light for caliber bullets

my personal experience is with 255 gr GS copper monolithics in a 416 Rigby, that shoots nice and flat at 3300fps. In BC nothing that Ihave hit including 2 moose ran at all.

MJG and OK + fly very well out of my 9.3s , only shot deer so far. 155 gr MJG at 3100fps out of a 9.3x62
hope that helps a bit

Powder note: S335 is very similar to h335 and IMR3031, and H4895 is super tolerant for light for weight loads.
2nd note: at hammer bullets: most drive band bullets want to be seated very close to the lands, often only 0.5-1 mm off.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

you are looking for light for caliber monolithics

there are several companies, unfortunately none in Canada, that make light for caliber monolithics and drive band bullets. They usually perform very well on lighter game and turn a 9.3 or a 416 into a middle distance gun. Listing below with no aspiration to completeness.

GS custom/SA now defunct and not yet resurrected AFAIK, used to ship to CAN
AERO bullets/Styria arms, Austria, ships to CAN
SAX-KJG, Germany ( may ship to CAN)
Johannsen-GM MJG ( the original brass solids, )
Gian-Marchet, Switzerland
OK+ Jugoslavia, brass monolithics, MJG knock-off, better tip, good and cheap, may ship to CAN

Prophet river imports Northfork toCanada, but those are not really light for caliber bullets

my personal experience is with 255 gr GS copper monolithics in a 416 Rigby, that shoots nice and flat at 3300fps. In BC nothing that Ihave hit including 2 moose ran at all.

MJG and OK + fly very well out of my 9.3s , only shot deer so far. 155 gr MJG at 3100fps out of a 9.3x62
hope that helps a bit

Powder note: S335 is very similar to h335 and IMR3031, and H4895 is super tolerant for light for weight loads.
2nd note: at hammer bullets: most drive band bullets want to be seated very close to the lands, often only 0.5-1 mm off.

Thanks for that! What is your barrel's spin? My 404J Lilja barrel is 1:14 and 24". Hammers need a fast spin.

Interesting that you say copper bullets need to be tight to the lands but Barnes says exactly the opposite. They advise 0.005" jump but most guys say thirty thousandths at least. I didn't measure my Hammer reloads (should have!) but discovered late that the RWS brass I bought was much shorter length than spec. Consequently my dies were set up wrong pushing the shoulder too far back ( = problems with CRF snap over). I was seating the bullet at canelure/band so probably too low in the case. I have proper length Hornady brass now and changed the seating/sizing so they are seating and crimping Barnes TSX to Jeffery factory OAL specs.

Sounds like I will need to acquire a gauge for checking the lands depth in the chamber.

I loaded 307 gr Hammers with 84 gr IMR4895 which I was lucky to find at the time. The loading data I had then (from an image of manual pages posted on this forum) said this was starting load for 300 gr, but unclear what bullet type. That load kicked significantly harder than my 400 gr loads using Accurate 4350 (again, the only powder I could get my hands on) and they didn't group so I pulled the bullets.

How were those 155 gr MJG bullets for meat damage on deer? I will be checking those manufacturers' websites to see what they offer. If no retailers in Canada, some might be inclined to deal direct. As far as I know there's no restrictions on importing bullets. Powder and primers are a hassle due to hazmat. Likely some export regs though. Depends on the country.

Thanks again!

 

[mooze]

the monolithics as MJG are drive band bullets, so they behave very much different than Barnes. which still fully engrave in the rifling. The Barnes that I have behave as the company says ( 1.5-2 mm of the lands).

I'd send you some, but I only have 9.3s and some GSC in 416. No 423.
Meat damage is reasonable, hole in at caliber, hole out 2-4 cm
The GSC in 416 cause a lot of internal pressure, so I have blown the diaphragm out 2x in small blacktails . ruptured esophagus. Bit of a mess. but not bad.

 

[Frederik]

Please note that Impala bullets are solids they do not open.
I have been shooting with them since 2006 they work if you hit soft tissue like liver heart and lung otherwise they will act as an solid and using solids for plainsgame is good for the tiny ten if you don't want to ruin the skin.

But as a soid for backup or the thick skinned game they are excellent in the heavier weights and roundnose design with a small meplat.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I just heard back from Cutting Edge in Boise. They provided me with a pile of loading data for their lightweight 404J bullets: 250gr and 325gr. The tables listed several powders for each but only max loads (with instructions to reduce 10% and work up). At max in some powders the 250gr bullet can be pushed to almost 3K fps! And this is their Safari Raptor designed to shed petals and keep on going through the animal. Sounds like either weight has some promise as a plains game load. Since my rifle is set up with quick detach rings, I'm thinking it could easily fit dual purpose DG and PG by simply packing two different loads and two different scopes. I could have a functional R8 type combo gun at a fraction of the cost! And a lot easier on the eyes. What say you? Anyone have experience with these bullets?

 

[K E Johnson]

Absolutely better than an R8, probably akin to a R16!
Not so sure about the easier on the eyes as some of the R8s have some pretty nice wood.
Two loads and two scopes have been covered before. https://www.africahunting.com/threads/one-rifle-two-scopes.75293/

There is a ton of information on here on CEBs. https://www.africahunting.com/threads/hammer-vs-ceb-real-world-experiences.79342/

Use the search and you will find much more.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Absolutely better than an R8, probably akin to a R16!
Not so sure about the easier on the eyes as some of the R8s have some pretty nice wood.
Two loads and two scopes have been covered before. https://www.africahunting.com/threads/one-rifle-two-scopes.75293/

There is a ton of information on here on CEBs. https://www.africahunting.com/threads/hammer-vs-ceb-real-world-experiences.79342/

Use the search and you will find much more.

Yes, I see I contributed to that first thread. It was primarily about 375 H&H with consideration for 250 and 300gr spread for the two scopes. I am considering .423 caliber 250gr Cutting Edge @ 2950 fps and 400gr Barnes TSX @ 2150 fps. That's a significant difference in both hitting potential and range potential. I really don't see much possibility of accidentally mixing up scopes with wrong ammo. Cutting Edge Raptors are extremely unique in appearance.

 

[sgt_zim]

Thanks for that! What is your barrel's spin? My 404J Lilja barrel is 1:14 and 24". Hammers need a fast spin.

True enough, but the standard 14 twist on 404J is fast enough for the 400 gr. I think you only need a 17 or 18 twist for the 307 gr.

In my 280AI, the heaviest Hammer I can shoot is 141 gr. Anything heavier needs a 9 twist or faster, and mine is a 9.5. I don't have any trouble at all shooting 175 gr lead core bullets out of it.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@Ontario Hunter while I understand what you are trying to achieve ballistically speaking, I sort of question why anyone would want to lug along a heavy 404J for PG or deer. A 6.5 Swede, 7x57, or 300 WM etc are such a pleasure to carry and shoot. If a pickup truck can do the job, no need to use an 18 wheeler. JMHO.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

If it’s to have a (relatively) mild load to use on deer or whatever at home, it makes sense.

If the idea is to have a plains game load and a dangerous game load for Africa, rest assured that gods will definitely pee in your powder pan and you’ll have mismatch between the game, load, and scope somewhere, somehow.

A load that performs well on buffalo will perform well on plains game, full stop. It doesn’t matter if the bullet is “too tough” (it isn’t) but even if it is, it’s a 423 caliber projectile. It will hit harder and put plains game down faster than any 30-06 with any bullet. I speak of this from experience not theory.

 

[cajunchefray]

@Ontario Hunter while I understand what you are trying to achieve ballistically speaking, I sort of question why anyone would want to lug along a heavy 404J for PG or deer. A 6.5 Swede, 7x57, or 300 WM etc are such a pleasure to carry and shoot. If a pickup truck can do the job, no need to use an 18 wheeler. JMHO.

Maybe just because he wants to hunt with his .404 Jeffery? I get it.