Krieghoff Teck 458 win mag vs Sabbatti 470 NE

[Mountaineer]

I heard of a local gun shop that has these two double rifles. Does anyone have experience with either and what they are actually selling for today? Thanks

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Is this the Krieghoff Teck you are considering?
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1006185594

Reach out to @xausa He used one to take an elephant a few years ago...

Krieghoff Teck BDB .458 Winchester Magnum Rifle

Elephant

www.africahunting.com

LSB auctioned one off:
https://lsbauctions.com/2034/kriegh...r-under-double-rifle-case-excellent-4-safari/
The selling price was $7258 which was a fair price for it. Maybe a steel since the metal was 99%!

I've never even seen a Krieghoff O/U double rifle. I had a Chapuis O/U for a while and it was a lively handling double.

Krieghoff quality is probably twice what one will find in a Sabatti double. I doubt anyone will dispute that. If a O/U .458 Win double suites you, the Krieghoff is a much better rifle than the Sabatti.

If you really want a side by side double, as most do, I would not buy a Sabatti. Instead, move up to a Chapuis or Merkel. That Krieghoff Teck? I bet it's a high quality rifle that will provide years of service.

But, double rifles should have:

• Rimmed cartridges
• Double triggers
• Side by side barrels.

If they are missing any of the above, the price comes down.
Contact the dealer and make a verbal offer if the Teck doesn't sell at the starting of $7995 plus the 1% Gun Broker buyers fee and the sales tax. That's $8600 with 6% sale tax.
If you really like the rifle, offer them $7000. It's probably a consignment rifle so give them a chance to contact the seller.

Note: A .458 rimless cartridge double will use pawls built into the extractors to grip the cartridge when the extractor/ejector functions. I have a Heym 88B that uses dual pawls and functions great! I've also had a couple Merkels with single pawl ejectors that functioned as designed. That stated, rimmed cartridges drop completely into chambers while rimless cartridges, especially the belted rimless cartridges must be pushed over the pawls to chamber. This is easy to learn but still it's not ideal

Take your time and good luck!

PS: Our own @flyfishdoc is selling this Chapuis:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/998754747
@Just Gina has one of these. Ask her about it. Yes, it's not a 458 but a 375 H&H double is a heck of a gun. Plus these Chapius Iphisi are already set up for a scope. That turns the short range double into a 200 yard plains game rifle!

 

[deewayne2003]

Depends - someone will chime in shortly about some of the Sabatti doubles having ground muzzles and poor accuracy.

My avatar pic is my Sabatti.470 @ 50yds. It’s very accurate and Ken Owen did the regulation, triggers, load development & my .470 was the first ever RMR mount dovetail cut Ken ever did….

Point being Ken Owen has faith in them as good guns and he said very few had ground muzzles; however I would check if you can inspect.

Important notes….

1. If the gun comes with the regulation target and or regulation load data / factory ammo used for regulation. That’s a HUGE bonus - however I think they were all done with Hornady ammo.

2. Price depends on model

 

[thriller]

My sabatti is a 450/400 3 inch and shoots the same hole at 50 yards ( that’s why I bought it) I also have a 458 win mag m70. Either round is great so pick either one on that front the only question is which one shoots better and is the additional fit and finish what you want.

 

[AimSmall]

Can't speak on old Sabatti quality, but the new one I have has been flawless for the first couple of hundred

rounds.

 

[rookhawk]

I heard of a local gun shop that has these two double rifles. Does anyone have experience with either and what they are actually selling for today? Thanks

Any rimless cartridge is a very difficult dangerous game rifle to buy or sell in a break-action configuration. That is regardless of SxS, O/U, or single shot. If an ejector breaks, you have no plan to get the stuck cartridge out and your hunt is done. .458 WM is especially problematic because it headspaces on the belt and over time they bulge in the body of the case creating plenty of opportunity for a stuck case.

The super-majority of buyers of dangerous game, rimless double rifles are aspiring safari hunters that don't know what they are doing, thus creating a market for them because they appear to be "deals". Compound that with O/U configurations and single triggers on double rifles and you've got a boat anchor.

So that goes to the second choice mentioned, a Sabatti 470NE. Definitely a better caliber and a very reliable rimmed one at that. Sabattis in my opinion are trash having owned one myself and having seen them being worked on at a gunsmith friend's shop. Having said that, Ken Owen loves them and he has converted about a hundred worthless Sabattis into perfectly reliable, well regulated hunting rifles that he stakes his professional reputation upon. I was offered a used Sabatti 470NE for $2700 about eight years ago, but I declined the offer FWIW.

As is my usual comment on this topic, you've got two options that I think are good ones.

1.) Spend $6000-$10,000 on a WORLD CLASS dangerous game bolt action safari rifle used.

OR

2.) Spend $18,000 on a used Heym mid-grade dangerous game rifle knowing it is 100% reliable and can be resold for what you paid for it if you decide dangerous game hunting isn't for you.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Kreighoff all day, any day.

 

[frog stealer]

Any rimless cartridge is a very difficult dangerous game rifle to buy or sell in a break-action configuration. That is regardless of SxS, O/U, or single shot. If an ejector breaks, you have no plan to get the stuck cartridge out and your hunt is done. .458 WM is especially problematic because it headspaces on the belt and over time they bulge in the body of the case creating plenty of opportunity for a stuck case.

The super-majority of buyers of dangerous game, rimless double rifles are aspiring safari hunters that don't know what they are doing, thus creating a market for them because they appear to be "deals". Compound that with O/U configurations and single triggers on double rifles and you've got a boat anchor.

So that goes to the second choice mentioned, a Sabatti 470NE. Definitely a better caliber and a very reliable rimmed one at that. Sabattis in my opinion are trash having owned one myself and having seen them being worked on at a gunsmith friend's shop. Having said that, Ken Owen loves them and he has converted about a hundred worthless Sabattis into perfectly reliable, well regulated hunting rifles that he stakes his professional reputation upon. I was offered a used Sabatti 470NE for $2700 about eight years ago, but I declined the offer FWIW.

As is my usual comment on this topic, you've got two options that I think are good ones.

1.) Spend $6000-$10,000 on a WORLD CLASS dangerous game bolt action safari rifle used.

OR

2.) Spend $18,000 on a used Heym mid-grade dangerous game rifle knowing it is 100% reliable and can be resold for what you paid for it if you decide dangerous game hunting isn't for you.

Agree with all of the above. I’ll also add my opinion that high pressure cartridges, including the .458 Win Mag, do not belong in break action weapons of any kind. Stick with rimmed and low pressure cartridges for a much better experience.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Sabatti + Ken Owens =

 

[deewayne2003]

Sabatti + Ken Owens =

Agreed! ….

 

[rookhawk]

View attachment 557663

Agreed! ….

Without the target above, I won't give you $2000 for a sabatti.

 

[deewayne2003]

Without the target above, I won't give you $2000 for a sabatti.

If you find one for that price, you know where to find me!

I wouldn’t mind a spare in 9.3x74 for hog/deer hunting.

 

[Tiger2001]

Can't speak on old Sabatti quality, but the new one I have has been flawless for the first couple of hundred View attachment 557381rounds.

Hi there. I am looking at a new Sabatti EDL in .470. I am curious as to your experience because everyone seems to bad mouth the brand. Do you have an EDL and how new is it? Thanks in advance!

 

[Foxi]

But, double rifles should have:

• Rimmed cartridges why? Its a fairytale
• Double triggers , grey theorie,does your shotgun have this ,one failure each with the 2nd barrel?
• Side by side barrels. ok.thats classical,but not better in the field

I

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

@Foxi Nice of you to quote what I posted a month ago. Had you read the next line in my post, the answer would be clear;

But, double rifles should have:

• Rimmed cartridges
• Double triggers
• Side by side barrels.

If they are missing any of the above, the price comes down.

I don't make the rules. The market in my capitalist country does.

I own a 375 H&H and 458 Win doubles, along with a 500/416. I like high pressure, rimless chamberings in a double but rimless cartridges have their advantages. They are designed to operate at lower pressures. They cartridges also drop in and fall out of chambers. No spring loaded pawls to fiddle with pushing the cartridges over or pulling cartridges out when not using ejectors.

As for O/U vs SxS, the O/U's are proven to be better on the sporting clays and trap ranges. The scores prove this. In the grouse woods, a fast handling SxS is queen of the forest! SxS's are quicker to shoulder and hit a fast moving target. Others may disagree and that's okay.

I don't mind a O/U double rifle. If fact, their regulation should be less finnicky about switching loads. I once owned a O/U rifle but the darn thing wanted to pop open when I shot the top barrel. I liked it but had to sent it to JJ for repair. JJ repaired the practically new gun and then I got rid of it. If it had had double Kerstin cross bolts, it would not have been popping open and I'd probably still own it! It was a very nice double rifle.

Then there is that thing about a classic or proper double rifle having SxS barrels. As other members have posted, had Germany won WWI, the O/U configuration would probably be the most popular.

All my side by side shotguns have double triggers. My pump and autoloaders do however have single triggers. Oh! I must have forgot to buy any O/U shotguns...

Double triggers provide the shooter two separate rifles. I was practicing today with my 500/416 Krieghoff. The right barrel misfired when I pulled the front trigger. Had that been a hunting situation, I would of had a separate rifle operated by my rear trigger that may save my life. Now, I was at fault for the misfire and I hope I'd be more careful when hunting, but sht happens! How the heck did I screw that up... : ( It was a good reminder.

Double trigger vs single trigger; I'll take double triggers, you can take your chances!

 

[AimSmall]

Hi there. I am looking at a new Sabatti EDL in .470. I am curious as to your experience because everyone seems to bad mouth the brand. Do you have an EDL and how new is it? Thanks in advance!

In the search for my first double, I looked at and handled many. Found some great deals on 'classic' rifles as well as modern ones. Came down to I was planning on shooting it, a lot - primarily with reloads, and I wasn't willing to risk the cost of one of the classics for a rifle I might damage. Several friends have Sabatti's, and swear by them, so why not? Reasonably priced, nicely finished, and available... Purchased new this year, added a Trijicon rmr and a recoil reducer for weight. Now, with several hundred rounds thru, off sticks, it shoots factory DGX to touching at 50 yards, and 2 brands of reloaded solids stay within about 1" of the same poi. Pretty well pleased with the rifle and have learned a LOT about reloading for doubles - many thanks to the people on this site!

Note also, this is just the first... confidence in loading for doubles greatly expands options I would consider.

Have fun, aimsmall

 

[Tiger2001]

Thank you sir! I really appreciate the feedback on your Sabatti experience. I am very interested in getting one for myself and your info has helped me out a great deal. Best regards, Steve

 

[Mountaineer]

The Krieghoff followed me home last weekend. Now I have to figure out how to scope it.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

A lot of us install reflex "red dot" sights on our double rifles. This article provides a lot of information.
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/red-dot-rmr-sights-for-dangerous-game-rifles.73440/

If you must install a scope, JJ Perodeau is top notch for all double gunsmithing.

Double Rifle | JJ Perodeau Gunmaker

 

[Rare Breed]

Hi there. I am looking at a new Sabatti EDL in .470. I am curious as to your experience because everyone seems to bad mouth the brand. Do you have an EDL and how new is it? Thanks in advance!

The key word is new. If it is new in box it will be just fine. I had one and it was fine. Great entry double. Given your is new don’t let anyone tell you different