Latest Desert Dog optics videos

[Laniarius]

I thought it might help to share some interesting recent videos from Desert Dog Outdoors.

This first one has advice on scope mounting. He has some good tips on torque especially. I have made similar mistakes in the past, following the ring maker's spec rather than what's suitable for the scope.

I was a bit surprised at how critical he was of the durability of recent Leupold scopes. I always thought of DD as a bit of a Leupold fanboy (to the extent that a hard nosed guy like him is a fanboy of anything). I guess he's ticked with some recent bad experiences. Anyway, he says in this video that the trend in hunting scopes over the past 10 years or so has been to lighter scopes at the expense of durability, that apparently the tube walls are getting thinner and thus relatively fragile. I have very limited experience with older scopes so I don't have an opinion on that.

In this next one, he piles on a bit about recent Leupolds being less durable than they used to be. Anyway, I think many of you will enjoy these. I'd love to hear if anyone has experience or knowledge that confirms or contradicts his opinions about durability of some modern hunting scopes. (Note: there's a Nightforce in the picture; he praises them for being very durable.)

 

[USMA84DAB]

I have a VX6HD 1-6x24 back at Leupold right now - the fire dot quit. They have had it about three weeks, and have told me it will be another month before they get to it.

I had a Client's VX2 2-7x33 break a reticle wire - when sent back, they replaced it in a few weeks.

 

[Inline6]

Personally none of my scopes get torque to pass 18 inch pounds. Have seen to many scopes damaged, have spoken with enough optical engineers to know 18 works.

I'm not sure I understand his thought process. He will not review a Chinese scope yet he uses a Chinese torque wrench on his multi thousand dollar scopes??? No, would not do that. Invest in good tools they will take care of you. Run the Borka, fixit stick, and Bluepoint. He is right the Wheeler is accurate, for how long I don't know. I don't want to trust a 30.00 torque wrench on my 6,000 scope.

Leupold is not my favorite brand. Have seen to many go down in the field. Many people have had good luck with them. My last one was a VX6 that was on my 416REM did not have an issuewith it, was not satisfied. It has been sold and have moved to European glass.

 

[375Fox]

I watched the first video. He does mention Leupold more than the others because it’s on the table, but he says the same about Swarovski and Vortex. Very interesting video. I’ve had nothing to back up my feelings, but I’ve thought for a while each newer scope wasn’t built as solidly as the previous scopes. Thinner walls to cut weight to allow for more features makes sense. I listened to a recent podcast where the Leupold rep said today’s scopes are far better than previous scopes because technology has advanced to allow tolerances to become tighter. I’m not sure which to believe, but I miss the days of simple Leupold scopes and using a dime to make scope adjustments.
My brother recently bought his first rifle in probably 15 years. The gun shop installed a vortex 1” scope with Burris rings when he bought rifle. We shot about 20 rounds and realized the scope slipped backwards. He called the shop. It’s a very large dealer in this area. The said it’s not the first scope to slip this year at vortex specs. It was interesting for me to hear vortex has the lowest max torque specs of the scopes he spoke about in video.

 

[Inline6]

I watched the first video. He does mention Leupold more than the others because it’s on the table, but he says the same about Swarovski and Vortex. Very interesting video. I’ve had nothing to back up my feelings, but I’ve thought for a while each newer scope wasn’t built as solidly as the previous scopes. Thinner walls to cut weight to allow for more features makes sense. I listened to a recent podcast where the Leupold rep said today’s scopes are far better than previous scopes because technology has advanced to allow tolerances to become tighter. I’m not sure which to believe, but I miss the days of simple Leupold scopes and using a dime to make scope adjustments.
My brother recently bought his first rifle in probably 15 years. The gun shop installed a vortex 1” scope with Burris rings when he bought rifle. We shot about 20 rounds and realized the scope slipped backwards. He called the shop. It’s a very large dealer in this area. The said it’s not the first scope to slip this year at vortex specs. It was interesting for me to hear vortex has the lowest max torque specs of the scopes he spoke about in video.

They haven't lowered them, it's been that way for years. I'll pull one of my Gen l, ll or lll drive a nail in a board remount the scope and full expect it to maintain zero. Would also expect the same thing out of my NF scopes. The lesser lines not so much, everything has a failure point.

As far as the scope slipping, like was mentioned in the video. We're the surfaces cleaned and oil free? From my 22lr to my 458Lott my scopes at torqued to 18 inch pounds, none of them have slipped.

 

[gbflyer]

There has been a recent uptick in testing scopes in practical western hunting conditions, ie. 18 inch and 3’ drop testing as well as riding around in vehicles on unimproved roads. There are few that make the cut. Short of the old Mark 4 10X, Leupold fails miserably. I cannot link here due to forum rules.

One has to be careful where to point out flaws in Leupold and others due to brand loyalty. I have several of them, and have returned a good number for repair. I have others that work but have not been subjected to what many would consider abuse.

 

[375Fox]

They haven't lowered them, it's been that way for years. I'll pull one of my Gen l, ll or lll drive a nail in a board remount the scope and full expect it to maintain zero. Would also expect the same thing out of my NF scopes. The lesser lines not so much, everything has a failure point.

As far as the scope slipping, like was mentioned in the video. We're the surfaces cleaned and oil free? From my 22lr to my 458Lott my scopes at torqued to 18 inch pounds, none of them have slipped.

I don’t understand your first comment?

I can’t tell you what happened with the rifle and rings prior to range day. Everything was new and bought and installed the day he bought rifle at gun shop. I can only show you the result. We were trying different ammo and it surprisingly stayed on paper. Not until the last 4 or 5 shots did we realize something was wrong when went left and called it a day. He noticed the scratches later that night and sent me the photos. I’ve never seen one slip before this.

Before

After

 

[Inline6]

Not sure what you mean about the first part of my comment? For atleast 10 years Vortex has said 18 inch pounds.

I'm not sure what happened, it is hard to say. The good part about Vortex, they will repair/replace that scope. Even though it is an installation issue.

 

[Laniarius]

He does mention Leupold more than the others because it’s on the table, but he says the same about Swarovski and Vortex.

Yes, good point. I focussed on Leupold in my comments because it's what surprised me. With Vortex, it's all about which line. The highest ones are reputed the be durable, the low end less so (I had a Crossfire II loose a front seal/gasket from the rigours of being mounted on a .357 rifle then later a .308... They replaced with a brand new one but I sold it). My general sense from several threads on here and other forums is that Swaros aren't considered fragile, but most people seem to rank Leupolds higher in durability.

Overall it's not really fair to compare the three brands in general because Vortex offers a wide range from low to high end, whereas the bottom end of Leupold's range is higher than Vortex's (e.g., Freedom roughly comparable to Viper) and Swaro's low end is even higher (Z3 roughly comparable to VX3 or maybe 5). At least in DD's video he focussed in on $1000 USD scopes suitable for deer hunting.

I saw a recent comment on here from a dealer that the percentage of returns for Leupold and Swarovski was similar, and both small. I was just surprised by how DD described their durability.

I'm really glad I knew about the 18 in-lb. guideline (from another source) before I mounted my new VX-5HD earlier this year.

 

[Roller]

I was surprised that he “wrote off” the Swaro Z3 without even reviewing it . I have 3 of them, they were all under $800 and have had zero problems with them . Excellent glass for price. One has been on a 300 win mag for 3 PG trips to Africa and many other hunts , bounced around in trucks , and hundreds of rounds on and off the bench. I have leupolds, zeiss, higher end Swaro, and lots of other scopes to compare z3 to. Kind of a weird review ( and I’m a fan of desert dog)

 

[Laniarius]

I was surprised that he “wrote off” the Swaro Z3 without even reviewing it . I have 3 of them, they were all under $800 and have had zero problems with them . Excellent glass for price. One has been on a 300 win mag for 3 PG trips to Africa and many other hunts , bounced around in trucks , and hundreds of rounds on and off the bench. I have leupolds, zeiss, higher end Swaro, and lots of other scopes to compare z3 to. Kind of a weird review ( and I’m a fan of desert dog)

Yes, he doesn't explain why. I love his videos but sometimes there are these moments where his expression says, "if you know, you know" and I don't know.

 

[Laniarius]

As part of his "optics month", he's now added another one, this time it's on lapping.

He does some pretty compelling demonstrations of how easily rings can be out of alignment. How much of a problem this is, I think that's open to debate and the vagaries of individual experience. His point is why shouldn't we prevent problems with scope internals if we can do so by ensuring proper alignment?

This video could have almost triggered an OCD meltdown in me, but I don't have many rifles and I've lapped at least the 1" rings and have seen how it makes a difference at least for nice mounting without gouging the tube. In terms of 30 mm, one rifle uses Warne vertical rings and those should not be lapped (Warne explains why on their website, and DD says the same thing in the YT video comments). My only other 30 mm is a single piece setup and I think it's probably fine, but maybe some day I'll check the alignment using one of those nifty tools he shows.

 

[CBH Australia]

I'm not sure I understand his thought process. He will not review a Chinese scope yet he uses a Chinese torque wrench on his multi thousand dollar scopes??? No, would not do that. Invest in good tools they will take care of you. Run the Borka, fixit stick, and Bluepoint. He is right the Wheeler is accurate, for how long I don't know. I don't want to trust a 30.00 torque wrench on my 6,000 scope.

Good point, 1/4" drive torque wrenches were scarce when I looked. I have the Wheeler kit but no 6k scopes
I have the Borka kit too because I did not see many in inch pounds .

When we start talking 6k scopes we might need to look to SnapOn to find an equally expensive torque wrench.

I've seen some of his stuff. Does anyone no DD or know seem him on forums?

I think he pays for his own stuff and there are no sponsored or brand reviews just his stuff and his reviews.

 

[Laniarius]

Does anyone no DD or know seem him on forums?

There's a member on here with that name and I think it's him. But from his videos, he has a dim view of online forums because of so much stupidity and toxicity. This is basically the one forum where we don't see that, but I think he's cautious about wasting time with the way some flame wars can erupt on forums.

 

[CBH Australia]

There's a member on here with that name and I think it's him. But from his videos, he has a dim view of online forums because of so much stupidity and toxicity. This is basically the one forum where we don't see that, but I think he's cautious about wasting time with the way some flame wars can erupt on forums.

Well he is likely to spot the title if it is him.

I do see some members arguing over forums and getting hung up on their views. Then there are threads that get derailed or lengthy because someone starts joking with others etc or trying to get a bite. On a certain subject. I'm guilty of that and I know not all members appreciate it so I try to rein it in.

 

[steve white]

As part of his "optics month", he's now added another one, this time it's on lapping.

He does some pretty compelling demonstrations of how easily rings can be out of alignment. How much of a problem this is, I think that's open to debate and the vagaries of individual experience. His point is why shouldn't we prevent problems with scope internals if we can do so by ensuring proper alignment?

This video could have almost triggered an OCD meltdown in me, but I don't have many rifles and I've lapped at least the 1" rings and have seen how it makes a difference at least for nice mounting without gouging the tube. In terms of 30 mm, one rifle uses Warne vertical rings and those should not be lapped (Warne explains why on their website, and DD says the same thing in the YT video comments). My only other 30 mm is a single piece setup and I think it's probably fine, but maybe some day I'll check the alignment using one of those nifty tools he shows.

Leopold told me, if I wanted to cause slippage, just lap their rings...they don't recommend it. BTW I had already lapped them and experienced subsequent slippage. They replaced the rings, no more slippage.

 

[Laniarius]

Well he is likely to spot the title if it is him.

I do see some members arguing over forums and getting hung up on their views. Then there are threads that get derailed or lengthy because someone starts joking with others etc or trying to get a bite. On a certain subject. I'm guilty of that and I know not all members appreciate it so I try to rein it in.

Similar with me. I have no difficulty avoiding nasty arguments, but I sometimes want to interject with stupid jokes that many people may not appreciate.

 

[Laniarius]

Leopold told me, if I wanted to cause slippage, just lap their rings...they don't recommend it. BTW I had already lapped them and experienced subsequent slippage. They replaced the rings, no more slippage.

Interesting. I don't have nearly enough experience to make a conclusion, but I suspect that different designs respond differently to lapping.

 

[CBH Australia]

Interesting. I don't have nearly enough experience to make a conclusion, but I suspect that different designs respond differently to lapping.

I think that is where Desert Dog's video shows various examples of rings and equipment that he had to demonstrate his findings.

 

[Laniarius]

I think that is where Desert Dog's video shows various examples of rings and equipment that he had to demonstrate his findings.

For sure, he shows a wide variety. I don't remember for sure but I don't think he showed Leupold rings in his examples. Maybe the same applies to their rings as well, or maybe there is something different.

I've lapped Leupold rings and had no problems, but I only very lightly lapped them. But that's just one example.