Looking For A 500 N.E. Double Rifle

[Daniel Cary]

Greetings AH, my Ma who is also collector, enthusiast of the traditional, eclectic, etc ... is looking to invest in a double chambered in 500 N.E. She does not hunt, however, none the less still searches for the like! Now, I've never shot a double but have a vague recollection of what was available in store almost 2 decades ago. Steve Barnett has an S2 priced right, if it's still available. .. I slightly recall the Merkel 140 feeling to have a bit more integrity to it's build, I may sadly be mistaken. This may be really subjective, as it's up to the individual, however, before she decides on something in this price range

, I was wondering your takes "on the builders in the $10K price range".

I certainly share the interest, Good Lord. I have the specs on this S2, however, can't find Merkel's general OA Length, LOP, weight, if they come with ejectors, etc. ... These 2 examples certainly do not rule out Heym, Krieghoff, etc. Finding a double 500 N.E. reasonably priced "as this is still an extremely expensive investment" will be difficult enough, understanding they are custom. It's the Caliber, The Double & Reliability that's pivotal

Many Thanks. Regards, Dan & Anna.

 

[rookhawk]

You don't get a very good double rifle for $10k new.

For $10k used, a Blaser S2 is very good. For a bit more a heym is very good. For $15,000 you can get vintage British doubles that would be a significant step up.

For collectibility and for Anna to actually shoot it, you'd want a 450-400 3-1/4" Nitro Express.

For just having it to have, a 500NE is fine. A 470NE is a bit more marketable and easier to find ammo...elephants and rhinos can't tell the difference when they are shot with either.

I can't in good conscience recommend a searcy, merkel, or sabatti at that $10k pricepoint.

 

[Daniel Cary]

You don't get a very good double rifle for $10k new.

For $10k used, a Blaser S2 is very good. For a bit more a heym is very good. For $15,000 you can get vintage British doubles that would be a significant step up.

For collectibility and for Anna to actually shoot it, you'd want a 450-400 3-1/4" Nitro Express.

For just having it to have, a 500NE is fine. A 470NE is a bit more marketable and easier to find ammo...elephants and rhinos can't tell the difference when they are shot with either.

I can't in good conscience recommend a searcy, merkel, or sabatti at that $10k pricepoint.

Thank You! I certainly understand anything in the $10-15K would be a used firearm, I was however, unaware that Merkel would not be a wise decision. The Sabatti's are definitely a bust! The S2 is an unorthodox looking double, not to undermine it but it's unique in it's own right. I read the post on the individual asking essentially the same question in regards to purchasing a double by the manufacturer's, fault's & advantages respectively. The Heym's hit home in our opinion, but they can come in at a significant cost. I also didn't realize the 470 is typically preferred over & above the 500.

I'll pass it along & stay on the look! Thank You.

 

[rookhawk]

Thank You! I certainly understand anything in the $10-15K would be a used firearm, I was however, unaware that Merkel would not be a wise decision. The Sabatti's are definitely a bust! The S2 is an unorthodox looking double, not to undermine it but it's unique in it's own right. I read the post on the individual asking essentially the same question in regards to purchasing a double by the manufacturer's, fault's & advantages respectively. The Heym's hit home in our opinion, but they can come in at a significant cost. I also didn't realize the 470 is typically preferred over & above the 500.

I'll pass it along & stay on the look! Thank You.

Hi Daniel,

I think we're just trying to dial in what you and your spouse are "Really" after so we don't steer you wrong.

If your wife wants it, but will never, ever shoot it, then it sounds like an investment that you're seeking? $10,000 double rifles are not investments, they are ways to lose a lot of money in most cases. Buying a low-grade double as an investment is like buying a used Ford Festiva as an investment...it was a Ford Festiva and now that you've bought it what do you think that Ford Festiva will be worth after another five years? Even less.

But if your wife wants to shoot it, that leaves us with the idyllic 450-400 and a slightly manageable 470NE with the proper custom load. (RL15 powder loads)

So once we figure out your flexibility on price, flexibility on caliber, solving the notion of whether there is any intention to shoot the gun, and identifying if you really want an "investment" or not, we'll be able to provide a bit of guidance more suited to your ends.

If you want an investment or a gun of high quality for inheritance perspective, rather than a "working tool", you need to look at guns that were between $40,000-$150,000 when new or that would cost that as modern replacement cost to build them today. That doesn't mean you need to pay $40,000-$150,000, it simply means you need guns that were of that quality. USED versions of those types of guns might be in that $18,000-$35,000 range and will hold or go up in value. They'll appreciate because they are unique. Also because their new replacement cost is so high and increasing year over year. Also because there is more resale demand for higher quality guns than "Ford Festivas".

Regards,

Rookhawk

 

[smuzzie]

What is y’all’s thoughts on a Verney-Carron in 500NE? very nicely balanced and very manageable recoil.

 

[K-man]

Greetings AH, my Ma who is also collector, enthusiast of the traditional, eclectic, etc ... is looking to invest in a double chambered in 500 N.E. She does not hunt, however, none the less still searches for the like! Now, I've never shot a double but have a vague recollection of what was available in store almost 2 decades ago. Steve Barnett has an S2 priced right, if it's still available. .. I slightly recall the Merkel 140 feeling to have a bit more integrity to it's build, I may sadly be mistaken. This may be really subjective, as it's up to the individual, however, before she decides on something in this price rangeView attachment 366923, I was wondering your takes "on the builders in the $10K price range".

I certainly share the interest, Good Lord. I have the specs on this S2, however, can't find Merkel's general OA Length, LOP, weight, if they come with ejectors, etc. ... These 2 examples certainly do not rule out Heym, Krieghoff, etc. Finding a double 500 N.E. reasonably priced "as this is still an extremely expensive investment" will be difficult enough, understanding they are custom. It's the Caliber, The Double & Reliability that's pivotal

Many Thanks. Regards, Dan & Anna.

I will stay away from the investment portion of the double. You need to know how the double fits before you purchase it. I will be difficult to get a large caliber rifle that fits both of you well enough to be both accurate and reduce the felt recoil. There are many knowledgeable people here on this site about the quality, price and future resale pricing of doubles. If you want another opinion, George Caswell of Champlin Firearms has tons of knowledge and also sells fine doubles.
If you are looking for someone to talk you out of buying a gun, this is definitely the wrong place to look!!!

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Thank You! I certainly understand anything in the $10-15K would be a used firearm, I was however, unaware that Merkel would not be a wise decision. The Sabatti's are definitely a bust! The S2 is an unorthodox looking double, not to undermine it but it's unique in it's own right. I read the post on the individual asking essentially the same question in regards to purchasing a double by the manufacturer's, fault's & advantages respectively. The Heym's hit home in our opinion, but they can come in at a significant cost. I also didn't realize the 470 is typically preferred over & above the 500.

I'll pass it along & stay on the look! Thank You.

Daniel,
I have used a Merkel in 500 N.E for the better part of 5 years now. I had one small issue with the triggers which I sorted out.
If it can withstand working full time with a Professional Hunter, it will certainly work for you.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Thank You, I may miss use the term investment? .. My Mother is the one actually interested. Used to be an avid shooter for sport & post honors in archery. She has a small collection, but like myself appreciates the beauty in the rare, or eclectic which these certainly are!. With limited time & not being able to actually see or shoulder any of these, it can be difficult. However, as it would never see a hunt, it would still be used & appreciated. There is a couple 500's available, I was just curious some takes on these manufacturers!

We both had a chance to see the S2 & Merkel's 140. At the time, the sales rep persuaded against Blaser, in favor of the Merkel?

 

[Daniel Cary]

Daniel,
I have used a Merkel in 500 N.E for the better part of 5 years now. I had one small issue with the triggers which I sorted out.
If it can withstand working full time with a Professional Hunter, it will certainly work for you.

Thank You! & Glad to hear ... if you care to share? Can I ask what the weight, OA Length, perhaps LOP?
I remember Merkel having a nice fit & Finish?!?
Beautiful none the less!

 

[Daniel Cary]

I think the term "Investment" is loose for justification. I understand you pay for what you get & this is nothing to sneeze at by any means. I do know the S2's are gone, however, for the amount of proverbial use it may or may not see, doesn't rule it out. Reliability is pivotal. She purchased a Baretta several years ago, New that had a trigger issue out of the box.

 

[rookhawk]

I think the term "Investment" is loose for justification. I understand you pay for what you get & this is nothing to sneeze at by any means. I do know the S2's are gone, however, for the amount of proverbial use it may or may not see, doesn't rule it out. Reliability is pivotal. She purchased a Baretta several years ago, New that had a trigger issue out of the box.

Hi Daniel,

Somehow I interpreted your initial request that she wouldn't be using it for hunting. You're asking sort of loaded questions.

If you want an investment you're buying a very different weapon than if you just want something to shoot.

If you want it to for your mother, its going to either be a.) A horrible investment, or b.) terrible, horrific to shoot. Those are your two choices: terrible investment, or terrible to shoot all the way to the point of unusable.

If a woman wants to shoot a double, but she isn't shooting elephant with it, why do you want a 500NE? A 500NE has over 80 foot pounds of recoil. That's nearly 3x the recoil of a 375HH and 5x the recoil of a 30-06 and 10x the recoil of a 6.5 creedmore. A 500NE is a necessary evil for stopping 6-ton animals, not a pleasure gun to shoot. And if you want it to be "manageable or bearable" to shoot for a woman, it needs to be fitted to a woman's frame. That means $1000 in casting the gun, having it "toe out" for a woman's breast, shaving down the comb so sights align with a woman's longer neck length that effects drop at comb and heel, and probably chopping down the stock to correct length. These all cost money and not all the "cheaper" double rifles can easily be adjusted for a woman based on their construction. A high quallity double-rifle, yes. However, if she wants to shoot it and be comfortable doing so, you'll need to spend a lot of money getting it fitted which in turn will LOWER its value, not raise it. Put another way, you chop 1" off that stock and that gun is worth $4000 less.

So far, you've asked for a gun at a pricepoint that is too low, in a caliber that is too great, that needs additional money thrown at it to make it functional, that will in turn ruin its investment quality.

If your requirements were different, (they should be) you'd get different results.

I think you want a used high-quality double rifle in 450-400. Ideally its already a bit short in length so you're paying less for it and thus it may fit her better upon purchase. Due to its lesser recoil, she won't need to worry as much about fit and you'll be shooting a gun with 38lbs of recoil rather than 85lbs or more of recoil.

You came to the forum asking which is better and where to find a $10,000 500NE. I don't think you want a 500NE. I don't think she'll shoot a 500NE. I don't think you'll get a good one for $10,000. So we're answering your strict requirements, but I think your requirements are terrible. Someone will give you what you asked for, take your money, and you're going to hate the outcome.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Thank You! & Glad to hear ... if you care to share? Can I ask what the weight, OA Length, perhaps LOP?
I remember Merkel having a nice fit & Finish?!?
Beautiful none the less!

Hi Daniel,
You are very welcome. The weight is 10.5 Lbs. I would need to measure the OA length and LOP for you.

Take Care,
Marius Goosen

 

[IvW]

What is y’all’s thoughts on a Verney-Carron in 500NE? very nicely balanced and very manageable recoil.

Great choice

 

[Daniel Cary]

Hi Daniel,
You are very welcome. The weight is 10.5 Lbs. I would need to measure the OA length and LOP for you.

Take Care,
Marius Goosen

Thank You kindly! Regards, Dan.

 

[yhc]

Good morning Dan.

There is a Heym 88B in 500 NE advertised as “made and sold in 2015 and has never been used or fired.” It is listed for sale from a Canadian dealer/gunmaker, Ralf Martini. It’s listed for $17,900 CAD so at current exchange rate, it would be around $13,600 USD.

If you are open to purchasing a firearm from Canada and willing to go through the importing process I would recommend checking it out.

Regards,

 

[Ray B]

Other than purchases of opportunity, the next gun that I purchase is expected to be a double rifle. One aspect that I've noticed regarding the purchase is what is termed big bore addiction. First I considered getting a 450/400. But I have a 404 M70, so there is some ballistic duplication; so move up, considering a 450, but it's about the same as the 458 WM; so up to 470 NE; but since I hope this to be a one time purchase, maybe go to 500. At present I have stopped there and not considering going to 600.

Also in reviewing the threads, I've moved past the various brands and have settled on a Heym (even though I have a Merkel 201 12 ga that has performed flawlessly for over 60 decades). And considering the amount of money involved, I think I will go the new route so that the gun will be made specifically for me, rather than me trying to fit myself to someone else's specifications.

So now it's just a matter of scrapping up the $15-17K for the base model- but them what about embellishments? so the process continues. But as in hunting, the search is as much a part it as the actual purchase. Such fun!!

 

[jacques smith]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a merkel. It’s a tool perhaps as opposed to a work of art such as a holland and holland from the turn of the century but I know of one with full kit. Shells , cleaning gear ,soft case box and Manuel etc for under 9 k. Duke with gulf breeze firearms has details. Best of luck with your search

 

[JPmbogo]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a merkel. It’s a tool perhaps as opposed to a work of art such as a holland and holland from the turn of the century but I know of one with full kit. Shells , cleaning gear ,soft case box and Manuel etc for under 9 k. Duke with gulf breeze firearms has details. Best of luck with your search

Sort of like the difference between a Rolex and a Patek Phillippe.

 

[norfolk shooter]

Dont dismiss the Sabbatti. I have one and the fit finish, regulation etc is all spot on. As long as I do my bit the thing shoots very well.
Id say after the debacle when they first sent a load over the pond to the USA they have had to sort them out. Thats what happens when you rush the building of a double rifle

 

[Daniel Cary]

Thank You all! .. I had a Merkel on hold, beautiful build imo and a remarkable price. 500 N.E./20 Gauge set. Circumstances, and covering a terminal away from home since I've posted this add almost, I regretfully had to email the seller to let it go.

I do have a question however. Subjective of course, ill fitting or not, but how is the recoil of a 10.5 lb 500 N.E.?

I can't imagine it as bad as a 9.5 lb 500 Jeffery? Thank You!!!