Lost or stolen guns on airlines

[Mountaineer]

I’m planning another hunt to Africa and was wondering if anyone has had issues with lost or stolen guns. What I’m considering is getting a cheaper gun with detachable scope. Putting the scope in my carryon. That way if my gun is lost/stolen I’m just out a few hundred instead of thousands. I had two rifles and two pistols stolen on a flight in the USA a few years ago, that’s why I’m concerned.

 

[Philip Glass]

I’ve been on something like 20 international hunting trips. I’ve never had a gun stolen or lost, at least for any significant amount of time.
I understand your concern but it is unfounded. Use a good travel agent and buy quality travel insurance. TWG.travel gives you free baggage insurance through blue ribbon bags as part of their service. You can buy a gun policy through SCI as well if that gives you piece of mind.
For reference I just returned from safari with my Blaser R8, Swaro Z8 scope, and Swaro EL TA binos. This is about a $15,000 setup. This is nothing compared to the double rifles some folks hunt with. My point is to not worry about it too much.
Regards,
Philip

 

[WAB]

I’ve never lost a gun. No way I’m leaving the gun I’ve had built for a hunt home on the chance it is stolen. What is the point of having it if you don’t use it?

 

[BnC 04]

It doesn't make having a firearm lost, stolen or damaged any less frustrating but obtaining a good insurance policy can and will protect against all 3 mentioned.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’m with @WAB why have it if your not going to use it. If that’s case just rent from your PH.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I’m planning another hunt to Africa and was wondering if anyone has had issues with lost or stolen guns. What I’m considering is getting a cheaper gun with detachable scope. Putting the scope in my carryon. That way if my gun is lost/stolen I’m just out a few hundred instead of thousands. I had two rifles and two pistols stolen on a flight in the USA a few years ago, that’s why I’m concerned.

Be careful carrying a scope on. It's technically supposed to be legal, but there are those who will claim it's a gun part and freak out........ so I've read.

As far as the rifle goes, nah man. Get some insurance as others have suggested. Life's too short to be traveling all the way to Africa to hunt with something you're not happy with. I realize that it's obviously happened to you, that you had your guns stolen, so I understand your concern. But one of the good things about all of the hassle we go through in taking our rifles to Africa, is the airlines are pretty particular about handling them with much more care and seeing they go to where they should.

 

[JimP]

On my first trip I was concerned about my rifle, but I figured that I would just make sure that I had insurance on it to replace it if needed. Granted if I had to replace my rifle it won't be the same rifle that I have made lots of memories with but it is only a piece of metal and fiberglass.

I'm taking the same rifle next year on my second safari, and am not going to worry.

 

[Dianas Favorite]

Nah, you are fine. All you need is insurance and not too many legs or layovers at the same time so they can come along. My rule is to have no more than two legs outside the EU, but from Germany that is easy for me because we can go directly to the big african airports and then take a connection or charter a smaller one.

 

[mark-hunter]

I spoke with a policeman working on airport. This is what I have been told.

Gun is not "just another luggage".
All declared guns, are highlighted and closely tracked on cargo manifest.
They cannot be lost just like that.

However, rough handling may cause a damage on rifle case, and rifle itself. Had been few cases reported on the forum.

 

[Fabnosh]

Handling firearms through airports is mostly pretty good and well controlled so I'd not unduly worry about it

To be honest, I'd be more worried about how good your decision was on what case you used. Baggage handlers are brutal at most airports but if brutal baggage handling was an Olympic sport, South African baggage handlers would be on the top of the podium!

I trust my kit to Peli cases and, whilst they definitely show signs of the miles they've travelled, they have been truly excellent.

FN

 

[vancewalker007]

I’m planning another hunt to Africa and was wondering if anyone has had issues with lost or stolen guns. What I’m considering is getting a cheaper gun with detachable scope. Putting the scope in my carryon. That way if my gun is lost/stolen I’m just out a few hundred instead of thousands. I had two rifles and two pistols stolen on a flight in the USA a few years ago, that’s why I’m concerned.

Fly direct, avoid Europe and the UK and you should be fine. I would not put a scope in my carrying-on. In South Africa they freak out about gun parts or tools in carry-ons. They don't even like ammo holders in carry-ons. I don't have a bunch of experiences, I've been twice with zero gun or ammo issues. I use very good heavy duty TSA locks on my gun case and ammo cases. I put ammo in locked boxes in the checked luggage. I usually split my ammo half and half if I have 2 checked bags. The locks I use on my gun cases are the FORGE 4 Digit 17067 TSA Approved Tool Box and Case Lock. The locks I use on my ammo cases are smaller Forge 4 digit but the larger ones would work as well. The Master Lock 4696T works good as well. These are all available on Amazon.

The most important thing related to firearms is have all your paper work absolutely correct. Have multiple copies of the paperwork with you in separated in carry ons. Use a rifle handling service, best money ever spent. Note, you will absolutely need a 4457 for your firearm's for getting them into Africa and getting them back into the USA. You cannot cut corners on the paperwork. That's a sure ways to loose a firearm.

Using a less expensive rifle is not a bad idea. Most of your shots are going to be less than 400 yards as you will see enough game to wait for a closer shot. Of course you can get into a long shot if you desire but I wouldn't recommend it. For plains game cartridges like 308 Win, 30-06, 270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag are great for travel and are available in almost every factory rifle out there. Ammo for these cartridges is readily available in most countries that have hunting if you loose your luggage. That being said, I hunted with a 300 WSM the first time and a 6.5 PRC the second time.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Agree with all of the above. If you don't want to be a Nervous Nelly, leave the irreplaceable family heirloom at home and take a rifle that can be bought off the shelf or on the auction boards.

 

[Happy Myles]

I have been traveling around the world with firearms for 55 years several times annually and never had one lost or stolen. Granted, on a few occasions they did not show up or were not allowed on the plane in time for the hunt but in the end they always came home. Once, I had tire tracks on the rifle case but no damage. Use top quality cases, alert the airlines in advance so no surprises, have proper paperwork, patience and a smile. These days use a travel agent who specializes in hunters. I have expensive rifles and use them hard.

 

[Mountaineer]

Thanks! If this group hasn’t had problems with all your experience it’s not something I’m going to worry about. I have very good hard cases and some master locks for it.

 

[fourfive8]

No issues with lost or stolen firearms on airlines. Doing it since early 70s. Use a good quality case but it's probably best to use a smallish lock... as long as it locks and stays locked during rough handling. If the lock (s) is/are too beefy then the inspectors may do real damage to the case trying to open it. They have the authority to open gun cases for inspection really anytime they want and especially so in foreign countries. They might view a difficult to open case or lock as a "challenge". It may seem counter intuitive, but IMO, it's best to make it easy for them to open and inspect- not hard to open and inspect. A serious thief, behind the curtain, will either open the case at will or take the whole case.

 

[Tra3]

+1 on pelican cases. And definitely bring the gun you enjoy hunting with.
And for stateside travel, my experience has been that the airlines require me to show an ID to get my gun case from special services when I arrive.
For my trip this summer I had 4 swaro scopes and 2 swaro binos in my carry on, no issues with delta or Ethiopian air through Addis. The TSA guy came over to talk to me just to tell me I had some nice optics in my bag.
And CBP in Dulles resulted in 3 curious, and polite agents wanting to see how two R8s and 3 barrels pack down into a small case.

 

[WAB]

Agree on the pelican case. As close to indestructible as a gun case could be.

 

[fourfive8]

Most bolt rifles are poor man's take downs. Use it to advantage. Here's a "short" Pelican with a bolt rifle taken down. Two holes for locks- so two same-keyed locks used. TSA inspection card is shown on left side. Included is copy of 4457, ID page of passport and flight itinerary. Bolt is removed and strapped down. Foam cutout is glued above barreled action to help secure it in place when lid closed. Set up for easy inspection

 

[Longrifle]

Most bolt rifles are poor man's take downs. Use it to advantage. Here's a "short" Pelican with a bolt rifle taken down. Two holes for locks- so two same-keyed locks used. TSA inspection card is shown on left side. Included is copy of 4457, ID page of passport and flight itinerary. Bolt is removed and strapped down. Foam cutout is glued above barreled action to help secure it in place when lid closed. Set up for easy inspection
View attachment 421890

That's a great set-up.

 

[Longrifle]

What I learned during my first trip is, use riflepermits.com. They are worth every penny (which is very reasonable). Anna and Marius will meet you at Johannesburg and walk you through the entire process. My rifle was delayed and Marius knew who to call to recover it. The private security service (Eagle) tried to load it onto AirLink before it was 'imported'. Eagle Security must be watched every step. Marius and Anna were distracted by a larger group so, the one walking my rifle from the check-in counter for departure to the SAPS office took an unscheduled detour. He led us down a dark hallway then said he would take the rifle from there. I questioned him and demanded we go to the SAPS office. After a few moments of refusing to go further, the 'firearm escort' relented and we went to the SAPS office. Marius met us there and I informed him of what happened. There was a heated exchange in Afrikaans and my rifle was appropriately 'exported'. Watch out for this. Do not give any security personnel money or sign any documents. There is a log book in the SAPS office where you sign in (import) and out (export).