Mechanical Broadhead Question

[Buffalo1]

Would a 1 1/2" mechanical BH be effective out of a 50# Elite Ritual bow for bush duiker or steenbok? My 500 gr. arrow is traveling about 220 fps.

If yes, what brand would you recommend ? 2-blade or 3-blade style?

Looking for experience or first hand knowledge.

 

[joker2400]

It should work. I'd probably go with the 2 blade Sevr or Rage hypodermic

 

[Red Leg]

Either would be Fine. Your targets are the size of whitetail yearlings or fawns.

 

[LivingTheDream]

You should be fine. As for BH, I prefer NAP spitfire. Good luck!

 

[rookhawk]

Little things need speed and can jump the string, big things need penetration.

I’d rig for speed and accuracy and worry less about blade size.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Would a 1 1/2" mechanical BH be effective out of a 50# Elite Ritual bow for bush duiker or steenbok? My 500 gr. arrow is traveling about 220 fps.

If yes, what brand would you recommend ? 2-blade or 3-blade style?

Looking for experience or first hand knowledge.

Sir, I agree with what Rookhawk has stated above. Steenbuck are one of the most prolific string jumpers in Africa. Both myself, and one of my PH's has had Steenbuck jump our strings at 30yds, in a relaxed state, shooting 430gr arrows from a 70# Mathews Triax.
As far as the broadhead is concerned, have you looked into the Muzzy Trocar HB? It is called a hybrid, and a combination between a fixed blade and mechanical. Been very impressed with them so far.
If you need any further info regarding setup etc, please do not hesitate to drop me a PM.

Take Care,
Marius Goosen

 

[rookhawk]

I don't mean to open up a contentious issue, but the mechanical versus fixed blade topic is particularly relevant to Africa. The GOAL is so important to considering the right tool for the job.

For the small stuff: (warthog, duiker, grysbok, klipspringer, springbok, bushbuck)
1.) Does it fly absolutely true?
2.) Is it the fastest setup you can possibly make?
3.) Penetration doesn't matter, its happening in excess.
4.) Blood trailing doesn't matter... it's gonna bleed. (and the trackers in africa WILL find it)

In light of that, Mechanicals have a few problems. Sure, when they work, they work amazingly well, better than any fixed blade. And when they don't work well? They fail horribly. They can cut on the two angles that you didn't want them to cut, they can open asymetrically and re-reoute your arrow, they can open after entry (no entry wound) and stop under bone (no exit wound).

Depending on your arrow setup, you might want a razor-sharp 75-85gr two blade fixed, perhaps with a bleeder. Whatever it takes to build an arrow that flys like a bullet.

For the big stuff, no one has EVER said mechanicals are the way:
1.) Heavy FOC
2.) Slow, heavy arrows for deep penetration
3.) Cut on contact for immediate bleeding
4.) Two blades for further penetration

Hell, for the big stuff, its not unreasonable to spend $100-$150 PER ARROW to build these setups. For the small stuff, you want to find the "hogwash-bs-no one in the USA uses them" arrows that all the manufacturers use to brag about how fast their bows actually are. Then you want to improve those even more if you can.




The one truth about Africa that never fails to hold: Whatever we believe is true about big game hunting in North America, whatever gear is great, whatever gun is awesome, whatever scope is the best, whatever bow setup is ideal....it's all wrong for Africa.

 

[joker2400]

I don't mean to open up a contentious issue, but the mechanical versus fixed blade topic is particularly relevant to Africa. The GOAL is so important to considering the right tool for the job.

For the small stuff: (warthog, duiker, grysbok, klipspringer, springbok, bushbuck)
1.) Does it fly absolutely true?
2.) Is it the fastest setup you can possibly make?
3.) Penetration doesn't matter, its happening in excess.
4.) Blood trailing doesn't matter... it's gonna bleed. (and the trackers in africa WILL find it)

In light of that, Mechanicals have a few problems. Sure, when they work, they work amazingly well, better than any fixed blade. And when they don't work well? They fail horribly. They can cut on the two angles that you didn't want them to cut, they can open asymetrically and re-reoute your arrow, they can open after entry (no entry wound) and stop under bone (no exit wound).

Depending on your arrow setup, you might want a razor-sharp 75-85gr two blade fixed, perhaps with a bleeder. Whatever it takes to build an arrow that flys like a bullet.

For the big stuff, no one has EVER said mechanicals are the way:
1.) Heavy FOC
2.) Slow, heavy arrows for deep penetration
3.) Cut on contact for immediate bleeding
4.) Two blades for further penetration

Hell, for the big stuff, its not unreasonable to spend $100-$150 PER ARROW to build these setups. For the small stuff, you want to find the "hogwash-bs-no one in the USA uses them" arrows that all the manufacturers use to brag about how fast their bows actually are. Then you want to improve those even more if you can.




The one truth about Africa that never fails to hold: Whatever we believe is true about big game hunting in North America, whatever gear is great, whatever gun is awesome, whatever scope is the best, whatever bow setup is ideal....it's all wrong for Africa.

I wouldn't include warthog with steenbok etc. They are built very differently. My personal opinion is that warthogs require a heavier arrow than most plains game and are not well suited for mechanical heads.

 

[rookhawk]

I wouldn't include warthog with steenbok etc. They are built very differently. My personal opinion is that warthogs require a heavier arrow than most plains game and are not well suited for mechanical heads.

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not advocating for mechanicals for any of the "small stuff" as I defined it. As known string jumpers, I suggested laser-fast arrows and cut on contact broadheads.

 

[joker2400]

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not advocating for mechanicals for any of the "small stuff" as I defined it. As known string jumpers, I suggested laser-fast arrows and cut on contact broadheads.

I suppose my issue is including warthog in that group. They have much stouter anatomy than the others mentioned and are significantly more resilient. I wouldn't advocate laser-fast arrows for warthogs as those sacrifice significant weight and therefore penetration to achieve high speeds which in my experience is not ideal on warthogs. Have taken 4 with archery equipment and never had an issue with string jumping, but have had issues with penetration. I think you are spot on about the other smaller animals mentioned though.

 

[rookhawk]

I suppose my issue is including warthog in that group. They have much stouter anatomy than the others mentioned and are significantly more resilient. I wouldn't advocate laser-fast arrows for warthogs as those sacrifice significant weight and therefore penetration to achieve high speeds which in my experience is not ideal on warthogs. Have taken 4 with archery equipment and never had an issue with string jumping, but have had issues with penetration. I think you are spot on about the other smaller animals mentioned though.

The problem with warthog is that the internet is chock full of world-quality slow-motion analysis of warthog archery. At 30 yards, those clever swine can jump the string a minimum of 4". It's dumbfounding how a lumbering animal can react the way they do under alarm.

So there lies the rub for smarter men than me to figure out, @joker2400 . Would you rather have the arrow penetrate less on warthog but get there on time, or do devastating pass-through shots that might be 4" off your point of aim? (or a compromise between the two?)

A bullet seems like the fastest way to overcome this paradox, but I'll let the archers debate the "ultimate warthog arrow" in light of the problems that have been defined with speed versus penetration.

 

[Hunter101]

Spitfire or I have seen videos on sevr they seem very good. I would never shoot a mechanical on anything to much can happen always fixed for me

 

[rookhawk]

Spitfire or I have seen videos on sevr they seem very good. I would never shoot a mechanical on anything to much can happen always fixed for me

The problem with archery, and archers, is that we do not react to data. We react to experience. I'm as guilty as anyone in this regard.

A.) I've had mechanicals fail.
B.) I've recovered an animal over a 5 hour tracking period, in pitch black, turning over a leaf at a time, moving at 12-15 feet per hour, to find my game. (dead 100 yards - 150 yards away, max)
C.) I've failed to get pass throughs with bad luck, even on ultra high power crossbows.

So what did my experiences warp my brain to do (anecdotes, not huge data sets)? I went with fixed-hybrid-mechanicals. Fly true. Don't move. Upon impact, the blades loosen and should I fail to get pass through, the animal will back-cut itself pulling out the arrow as the fixed blades fold back and cut in reverse. Ramcats worked best for me in light of my mechanical phobias.

Like "Sex Panther Cologne" (if you get the Ron Burgundy reference), Mechanicals work 60% of the time, every time.

 

[IvW]

Only problem I see if you set up for these two only(duiker and steenbok) with mechanical you are pretty much screwed if anything else comes in or is encountered while stalking. Good fixed blade is the way I would go......

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

The one truth about Africa that never fails to hold: Whatever we believe is true about big game hunting in North America, whatever gear is great, whatever gun is awesome, whatever scope is the best, whatever bow setup is ideal....it's all wrong for Africa.

@rookhawk : I almost always enjoy your knowledgeable and insightful comments, but this comment is quite a bit over the top in IMHO. My experience has been, what works well in North America usually works well elsewhere.

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk : I almost always enjoy your knowledgeable and insightful comments, but this comment is quite a bit over the top in IMHO. My experience has been, what works well in North America usually works well elsewhere.

Nah, I stand by it. First marketing feature in the US rifle market: how accurate is it. For ammo: how accurate, then how fast.

In a well stocked cabelas I’d be hard pressed to find a gun or ammo suited for Africa. Certainly, less than 1% of the optics in the 300+ Skus are suitable. 95% of the rings and mounts are not. The cleaning products? The tools? The gun cases?

Whatever is advertised in the USA on bubba hunting TV and sold at the big box stores is the antithesis of the right way.

Look at this forum, people are groveling and begging to find zkk602 bare-minimum beater guns and inter arms 458s, used and beat to hell because there is nothing like it available at the worlds largest sporting goods stores. Functional Africa guns are in short supply and hard to find. That’s the point.

I went to the largest sporting good store in New England this summer and of the 10,000 guns they had, perhaps 80 were bolt action. They didn’t know what a double rifle was (they had one) nor what a drilling was (they had six). 10,o00 guns, less than 10 were controlled round feed (all military).

Same for archery, try to find a good Africa broad head and you’ll be using mail order. Same for boots.

Hell, the gun library near me had not a single fine gun, not even one I don’t want. (E.g. colt snake gun, luger, anything anyone would claim as fine, forget asking for a fine hunting weapon)



Bottom line, the archery solutions sought in this thread, like any other Africa hunting need, isn’t solved at a huge hunting retailer in the USA. This pivot to junk product and 100% misinformed sales people has happened in less than 15 years.

 

[rookhawk]

I saved this for my epic irony collection that drives the point do the opposite of what are US norms for Africa, it could just as easily apply to a broadhead advertisement.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@rookhawk I totally agree with you that there is a lot of crap marketed to the masses. But a quality set up and quality equipment used in the US does not become crap because Africa is some sort of mystical environment that requires super duper quality. On my first DG hunt, in Zim, I rented rifles from a very well known and highly regarded PH. The 300 WM was a push feed Ruger M77 and the 375 H&H was a Remington 700. Both were topped with Leupold scopes. The PH and I had a short discussion on the push feed vs. controlled and he ended the conversation by stating, these rifles just work. After shooting a few rounds from both rifles we were off on Day 1 of a 10 day hunt. Late in the morning we spotted an old Blue Wildebeest and we both agreed it was a good trophy. I shot the "Poor man's cape buffalo" with the Ruger, using 180 Core-Lokt, and the BW dropped where it stood. Numerous other PG were taken with one shot kills. The 375 H&H was using Remington factory ammo with Swift A-Frames. As John Sharp stated, they just worked.

 

[Ryan]

I second the Muzzy Trocar HB. I did my homework and testing and dropped a nyala and bush pig with them last year.

Sir, I agree with what Rookhawk has stated above. Steenbuck are one of the most prolific string jumpers in Africa. Both myself, and one of my PH's has had Steenbuck jump our strings at 30yds, in a relaxed state, shooting 430gr arrows from a 70# Mathews Triax.
As far as the broadhead is concerned, have you looked into the Muzzy Trocar HB? It is called a hybrid, and a combination between a fixed blade and mechanical. Been very impressed with them so far.
If you need any further info regarding setup etc, please do not hesitate to drop me a PM.

Take Care,
Marius Goosen

 

[Synergy]

Would a 1 1/2" mechanical BH be effective out of a 50# Elite Ritual bow for bush duiker or steenbok? My 500 gr. arrow is traveling about 220 fps.

If yes, what brand would you recommend ? 2-blade or 3-blade style?

Looking for experience or first hand knowledge.

Perfect !!
I like Grim Reapers