Moving/Retiring to South Africa, or other places in Africa for that matter

[Royal27]

So I was talking to @ActionBob in another thread and we got off topic and started talking about this.

As I've fallen in love with Africa I've thought about retiring there, or at least spending a large portion of time there at some point. This is assuming that my wife loves it like I do as well. Although if I get her a place on the beach I think that will do the trick!

So my question is twofold:

1. Has anyone else thought seriously about moving/retiring to Africa and what research have you done?
2. For those of you who live there already. What advice would you give to a foreigner who thinks they want to move there?

I know this is a very broad subject and I'm looking for comments on all areas of life:

1. Political risks
2. Financial/Cost of Living
   
3. Cultural differences that could be difficult to adjust to
4. Language barriers - I know you can survive on English alone, but could you thrive and be accepted?
5. Etc....

I think this could be a pretty interesting thread....

 

[jeffpg]

For the past 2.5 years I have been working a flexible 28 on 28 off rotation in Angola and spending my fair share of time hunting and hanging out in the bush in adjacent countries, and this subject has crossed my mind many times.

I love it too, but I'm not too sure about actually "moving" here, although to have a good base of friends and contacts to visit and hunt with is certainly appealing.
I was recently encouraged to buy some property in South Africa, but I think that I would prefer to partner up with some like minded individuals for that.

I would love to bring my 26 year old son, but his family and work responsibilities have him pretty well hammered, and although I brought him up in the woods hunting everything that moves and he loves hunting, he has never tasted the sweet wine of Africa and he doesn't quite get what the old man sees in all those wild looking African beasts!

I still have a lot of hunting to do in the states, and I submit 50 to 60 big game applications for the public land draws each year, occasionally drawing some awesome tags. I also plan to hunt other continents, as well as a couple of countries in Africa that I haven't yet.

I really think my main goal is gradually turning to bringing my grandson on Safari every chance I get. He's only 2 years old now, but he already has more rifles and shotguns than most grown men do, and he handles his nerf gun that I got him for his birthday like a little man, insisting on loading it all by himself...

Yes, I am creating a Monster!

 

[Code4]

There are reasons anglo and non anglo Africans leave Africa and its not just economic.

I would look at possibly some kind of time share arrangement or partnership with a local, but I wouldn't plan on anything being stable, permanent or secure. Don't invest what you are not prepared to lose.

Spiket will no doubt contribute in due course.

 

[billc]

I think this is one of those things that sounds great but would not be the same after being there for a length of time.

I have not found many places I did not like and SA is one of my favorite.But after growing up here I would not even think about it.I would not want to start everything over as I get older in a new country.

Maybe some could pull it off but it would be way more then I would want to chance.

 

[enysse]

As much as I love Africa, I know I'm better off living in the USA. There is just too much stuff, I don't know about living in Africa.

 

[Royal27]

There are reasons anglo and non anglo Africans leave Africa and its not just economic.

I would look at possibly some kind of time share arrangement or partnership with a local, but I wouldn't plan on anything being stable, permanent or secure. Don't invest what you are not prepared to lose.

Spiket will no doubt contribute in due course.

I think it was the other thread where I mentioned this. I would only invest as much in a place over there as I was willing to lose completely. No million dollar house over there for me! Course, no million dollar house over here for me either...

I like the local partnership idea. It would still have risk, but maybe not as much.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I've dreamed that dream too Royal. But I guess perhaps I've woken up a bit too from it. I don't think I would own anything of significant value in RSA or Zim now. I'm not even sure you could if you wanted too. Mozambique, well time will tell in the long run where they go, though at the moment it mostly seems stable. But who knows?

I think I like the idea of renting a place, say for 3-4 months at a time. If property is cheap, so must rent be. Losing 3 months rent can't hurt that bad.

 

[thi9elsp]

Interesting the timing of this thread as I just watched a House Hunters International episode in the past week or two where the fellow wanted to move back to SA from Canada and buy a place. Started me wondering about renting a place for a month or two at a time. Namibia would probably be the place I would first consider for stability and do trips to other countries from there. I looked on www.airbnb.com (I don't know anything about the site but it had good information) and found some places from around $800 a month that look nice. Sounds like a great way to spend some time, see the sites and do some hunting.

I assume that being in-country for extended period of time that I wouldn't take a firearm and pay the rental fee with the PH. Of course, I'll have to find winery tours and fishing for Ann so that she agrees to the extended stay.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi Royal27,

My recommendation is to scratch around for a Safari Company/PH that could use whatever your career skills are.

And try to make some kind of deal to work for same, in straight trade for a hut and your meals, or perhaps you might have to pay a little toward your keep but, hopefully not as much as room & board costs where you live now.

If you can find such a deal, try it for a year or two, then decide if you really want to put down roots or not.

I did such a thing for one month while the big boss man of a mom & pop type Safari Company recuperated from neck surgery.
And I would've stayed longer but he mended and no longer needed an extra worker.

My wife is not as impressed with Africa as I am and so, moving there is not in the cards for me.

In fact, she is not interested in living anywhere outside Alaska (she's from here and furthermore is only a couple years into her second career, so Alaska is it for the duration - oh woe is me, lol).

Best regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[Royal27]

Velo Dog,

For me it will be at retirement, or never I'm afraid. My career is telecommunications and although that does is quite popular in Africa it would be all but impossible to get a job. So I will have to wait a few more years regardless.

The other place I've always wanted to run off to live is Alsaka, but alas, my wife does not feel like yours!!!!

 

[Wheels]

A bunch of you guys need to go together and buy this place or a place like it. Then invite your friends on AH to come over and help you enjoy it. Where beside Africa can you buy land with improvements for under $30/acre?

http://www.viviun.com/AD-1406/


I'll be waiting the invite!

All the best.

 

[enysse]

Nice one Wheels!

When you start crunching the numbers, hunting trips are the way to go.

You get to see different places and meet different people.

Depending how things are in Africa, when I retire I wouldn't mind just doing a tour of Africa in rented vehicle and visit and stay at different bed and breakfasts.

 

[sestoppelman]

We have all pondered this at times. But the truth is we go there to hunt and you cant do that all the time. So what to do with the rest (MOST) of your time. I think we would all like to spend more time there, but it has to have a purpose. And truth is, for most of us from the states, I for one am not willing to give up the amount of personal freedom that we enjoy here that is not possible anywhere else in the world. Not ranking on everyone else, but that's just how it is. Different countries have different rules and laws and one is generally comfortable with the laws one was raised with. So someone from say Norway who was raised and lives under a socialist type govt is likely perfectly comfortable with it, and someone like me would hate it, though again its not a knock on Norway, just a different approach to life. And the same would apply to moving to RSA for instance. Gun nuts like me would hate it! I buy, own, sell, trade guns as often as I like, its my hobby. I would not be able to practice my hobby there or in any other country in the world as I do here. So for me. Its here I stay.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

A bunch of you guys need to go together and buy this place or a place like it. Then invite your friends on AH to come over and help you enjoy it. Where beside Africa can you buy land with improvements for under $30/acre?

http://www.viviun.com/AD-1406/


I'll be waiting the invite!

All the best.

Thank you for that link Wheels, if this is the price you should jump on that deal… This must be a misprint as no property of this size would sell for anywhere near this price. Anyway I think that the size of this property is probably 3,200 acres and not 32,000 acres. That's still a good size for someone who wants a private hunting paradise.

Here is the ultimate millionaire playground for sale in Namibia: http://allafrica.com/stories/201402040769.html.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog,

For me it will be at retirement, or never I'm afraid. My career is telecommunications and although that does is quite popular in Africa it would be all but impossible to get a job. So I will have to wait a few more years regardless.

The other place I've always wanted to run off to live is Alsaka, but alas, my wife does not feel like yours!!!!

Hi again Royal27,

I hear you loud and clear.

The silver lining is that the same idea I described for trying one toe at a time in Africa would work nicely up here in The Frozen Wilderness as well.

Much of it is still truly wild, as there are streams, small mountains and lakes that, either have no names yet or, that people cannot agree what the real names actually are.

Some lodges have seasonal work available for people who are not afraid of hard work but, the pay is typically not much at all.

Some look for people to "lodge sit" during winter, in order to keep snow from getting too heavy on the roof, to ward off destructive animals (4 legged and 2 legged alike) and soforth.

But, if you retire first, you might not need to work for some hunting/fishing lodge.

Remote properties (many miles from any road or village) are available here and some are not very expensive at all - just an hour or two small plane ride from the nearest road/village, lol.

A must see video / if you haven't seen it already, is the excellent DVD from dickproenneke.com entitled "Alone in the Wilderness".

It's about $22. US, and worth every penny.

Well anyway, I guess that's about all the news that's fit to print around here so, I will clam up.

Look me up if you ever make it to Anchorage.

Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[enysse]

Thank you for that link Wheels, if this is the price you should jump on that deal… This must be a misprint as no property of this size would sell for anywhere near this price. Anyway I think that the size of this property is probably 3,200 acres and not 32,000 acres. That's still a good size for someone who wants a private hunting paradise.

Here is the ultimate millionaire playground for sale in Namibia: http://allafrica.com/stories/201402040769.html.

I'm so tired I didn't do the math but you are right Jerome at that price it is a steal.

 

[ActionBob]

There are reasons anglo and non anglo Africans leave Africa and its not just economic.

I would look at possibly some kind of time share arrangement or partnership with a local, but I wouldn't plan on anything being stable, permanent or secure. Don't invest what you are not prepared to lose.

Spiket will no doubt contribute in due course.

This is what I expected towards an honest response from someone who knows.... I absolutely loved so much about RSA, especially the rural areas. And I seriously would like to eventually spend some extended time there.

However I do know people who have fled and come to live in the US. And a few more who might like to.

I could not see giving up US citizenship, however I also know people who are US citizens but spend anywhere from 2-6 months living in Mexico, And one of those owns or at least controls most of a city block in a very nice touristy town on the Pacific Coast.. With the way things are going in Mexico, Africa may not seem that big a stretch. The economics are in the right direction for a US retiree's money to go farther.

I do not know anything about Namibia, but it recently made a list of great places to live if your a hunter in one of the hunting mags.

This much I am quite certain of. Africa is now or will become one of the next great economic growth areas in the World. China obviously sees this already. I suspect there may be no where with a greater array of problems, but those are the birth mothers of opportunity for those who can figure out how to solve them. Way over my head, but I do think it will be a fascinating next 30 to 50 years in Africa. There will be many fortunes made... and many others lost... along with some won and lost!

Not sure how this will bode for wildlife?

 

[Royal27]

Thank you for that link Wheels, if this is the price you should jump on that deal… This must be a misprint as no property of this size would sell for anywhere near this price. Anyway I think that the size of this property is probably 3,200 acres and not 32,000 acres. That's still a good size for someone who wants a private hunting paradise.

Here is the ultimate millionaire playground for sale in Namibia: http://allafrica.com/stories/201402040769.html.

That's a WOW at either 3,200, or 32,000, especially with the house and working wells. You sure couldn't find a place at that price here in the states. In far West Texas maybe (assuming 3200 acres), but without the house and wells.

This is my whole point I think. Trying to make retirement income go much further and see another part of the world extensively at the same time. Would I want to renounce my U.S. citizenship and put all of my eggs into Africa? No. I would however, consider staying there for some extended period of time and doing some type of real estate deal, whether that meant buying a place, or some type of lease.

I've heard of the game farms with houses on them that can be hunted. That would be interesting as would car travel across the continent (within reason). I agree with Sestoppelman that you would have to know what to do with MOST of your time in endeavors beyond hunting, which is why the cultural differences are interesting to me as well.

 

[Royal27]

Hi again Royal27,

I hear you loud and clear.

The silver lining is that the same idea I described for trying one toe at a time in Africa would work nicely up here in The Frozen Wilderness as well.

Much of it is still truly wild, as there are streams, small mountains and lakes that, either have no names yet or, that people cannot agree what the real names actually are.

Some lodges have seasonal work available for people who are not afraid of hard work but, the pay is typically not much at all.

Some look for people to "lodge sit" during winter, in order to keep snow from getting too heavy on the roof, to ward off destructive animals (4 legged and 2 legged alike) and soforth.

But, if you retire first, you might not need to work for some hunting/fishing lodge.

Remote properties (many miles from any road or village) are available here and some are not very expensive at all - just an hour or two small plane ride from the nearest road/village, lol.

A must see video / if you haven't seen it already, is the excellent DVD from dickproenneke.com entitled "Alone in the Wilderness".

It's about $22. US, and worth every penny.

Well anyway, I guess that's about all the news that's fit to print around here so, I will clam up.

Look me up if you ever make it to Anchorage.

Regards,
Velo Dog.

I'll check the video out.

My sister and her family (husband is an Air Force Officer) have lived all around the world in their over 20 years of service. of all of the places they have been stationed Alaska (Elmendorf) has bee their favorite. I drove to Alaska after college and stayed for a bit, then drove back. looking back, I'm really surprised, and sorry, that I didn't stay longer. I will definitely look you up when I make it again!

Royal

 

[PeteG]

Royal,
I think it would be pretty challenging to pack up and move permanently for your retirement to any country in Africa. There are some "special" people here that can make the simple day to day tasks rather frustrating.
There are however a lot of people here who would have it no other way and would not dream of moving, I am one of those people who would not like to cut ties with africa completely and leave on a permanent basis.
I have a long way to go before retirement and I would consider retirement in a 1st world country but would like to always have a place to come home to in Zambia for several months every year. Well, that's the plan anyway!

If you would be in a position to co own a piece of land or beachfront property, then you would have a wonderful time over on this side of the pond for a couple of months every year.
The different countries obviously have a lot of opportunities and quite a variety of lifestyle options.

As you probably already know, there is very little stability with african politics... nothing is a given...
Zambia, Bots and Nam are probably more peaceful than Zim, Moz and RSA, but different people may have different views on this.
The culture's will take time to get to know well and understand, but it is certainly doable and most locals appreciate the effort made by foreigners to learn the local culture's and customs, more especially people in the rural area's more than the towns and cities.
English will do well most places and you can easily pick up words from the local languages that will make life easier.

Your other options could be to simply pack a big bag and tour southern africa for a couple of months, that should help!

SpikeT is probably a good one to chat to about this.