Need the experts please sighting in Double Rifle

[Rare Breed]

Just got Rizzini 470 double rifle today. Beautiful! Will post pictures. Fired first time today. Open sights at 40 yards with Barnes same 500 grains yes same 500. It Hornady shoots weigh left and down barely on paper. Called Rizzini and they said would be fine once I put on ordered red dot site and do. It touch regulation which looks good at their 50 yards.
Would greatly appreciate the double gun expert thoughts. I only fired it from a standing position with no rest. Have not fired iron sights since I was a boy

 

[Rare Breed]

Sorry about typos. They said do not touch regulation and just me shooting off hand 8 shots way left and down

 

[npm352]

I have only hunted with a double one time that was a guide's in Australia...so I am far from an expert. I can tell you that you aren't going to figure out where the gun shoots without a proper rest. I would get it sighted with a rest, then practice off-hand. ...especially if you aren't used to the .470 recoil and especially if you haven't shot open sights in decades.

 

[TTundra]

Start at 25 yards, shoot the regulated load, and shoot often. Then work your way out. I used Hornady to practice as it's much more inexpensive then reload to my load in my 470. I started offhand to just get used to the recoil and feeling and then the bench to verify the sights, then quickly back to offhand and sticks.

May not be the perfect way, but has been working well for me.

 

[mikecatt13]

I have only hunted with a double one time that was a guide's in Australia...so I am far from an expert. I can tell you that you aren't going to figure out where the gun shoots without a proper rest. I would get it sighted with a rest, then practice off-hand. ...especially if you aren't used to the .470 recoil and especially if you haven't shot open sights in decades.

Second this. You need a rock solid rest.

I'm not a double expert but this is what I do. Fire only one barrel and see how the ammo groups, if it groups well then adjust the sights/reddot/etc for POI. Now you have one barrel zeroed and you know what ammo groups well. Now shoot the other barrel and see how it regulates barrel to barrel.

Off hand and off sticks is for practice though, a lead sled style rest is worth the cost for most guns but especially a big bore

 

[spike.t]

What ammunition was it regulated with

 

[MMAL]

Ok I did not understand the op. What I got from it was that the shots were down and left. My questions:

1) what ammo was it regulated with? Hornady, Barnes or other?
2) although they were down and to the left, how did the two shots look relative to each other? Were they close?

IMO if the two shots are close you are good. You can do I of two things. Get a shorter front site and adjust the rear site. This will help with the shot placement relative to the site picture. Or like they said wait for the red dot and just sight it in. With a double the really tough part is getting the barrels to shoot to the same (or close) point of impact.

Lastly at least use sticks to sight it in. Or a lead sled. Then go to sticks or free hand.

 

[yhc]

I would preface that I am not a double rifle expert. However I would precaution you re: using a lead sled for shooting large bore rifles. Energy has to go somewhere and I have read accounts of damaging stocks, scope reticles, etc. while using lead sleds during shooting large bore rifles.

Regards,

 

[Red Leg]

I am totally confused by what you wrote.

The only ammunition you should initially attempt to shoot with that rifle is the one with which it was regulated. If you bought the rifle new, there should be a test target with that information on it. Let's start there.

Also, the rifle was regulated over someone's hand against a rest. If you shoot from a bench, it is important to use the same technique. That said, he did it standing up leaning against a rest. If you take up a normal sighting in position at a shooting bench, that .470 will knock you around pretty good. Once you have the correct ammunition, try from the sticks first.

 

[Rare Breed]

Thanks everyone. Will do

 

[deewayne2003]

I am totally confused by what you wrote.

The only ammunition you should initially attempt to shoot with that rifle is the one with which it was regulated. If you bought the rifle new, there should be a test target with that information on it. Let's start there.

Also, the rifle was regulated over someone's hand against a rest. If you shoot from a bench, it is important to use the same technique. That said, he did it standing up leaning against a rest. If you take up a normal sighting in position at a shooting bench, that .470 will knock you around pretty good. Once you have the correct ammunition, try from the sticks first.

Rare Breed - I got my first double(also a .470) and since I got it second hand I had to adjust and ultimately replace the front sight, as the previous owner had filed it down.

Maybe my previous writeups can help you out.

First group with my first double .470 N.E.

My first trip to the range with my first double rifle taught me a few things and thought I would see if any of you seasoned double rifle veterans would weigh in on my thoughts. Rifle - Sabatti Safari .470 N.E. - Regulation, Trigger job & recoil reducer by Ken Owen of Moscow Tennessee...

www.africahunting.com

Frankenstein sight experiment success

So my first .470 NE double was hitting a 12” high and the gunsmith suggested building up the front sight with epoxy putty and then filing it down until it hit true to point of aim. Then step 2 will be sending it off to him; this way he will know EXACTLY what height replacement sight to...

www.africahunting.com

Finally have my .470 dialed in!

Back in February I purchased my .470 Sabatti and the previous owner had filed down the original front sight and per the instructions of Ken Owen, who re-regulated this rifle, I made a temporary front sight as detailed in my previous post...

www.africahunting.com

Just like Red Leg said, you want to shoot standing with a rest and at 50yds/meters.

Shoot each barrel and mark the bullet hole accordingly, L1=left barrel shot#1 & R1 = Right barrel shot#1; then repeat and mark the holes accordingly as you go; this will show you how accurate both you and each of the barrels are.

The #1 piece of advice I can give as being a novice with double rifles..... THE RIFLE MUST FIT YOU!

When I first got my rifle the LOP was too short and after having it fitted to me correctly, its amazing how much better I shoot the rifle and how much less it kicks.

 

[Tanks]

...

Off hand and off sticks is for practice though, a lead sled style rest is worth the cost for most guns but especially a big bore

No, no, no

And more no.

Every expert including manufacturers state not to shoot DOUBLE RIFLES from a lead sled.

 

[Red Leg]

No, no, no

And more no.

Every expert including manufacturers state not to shoot DOUBLE RIFLES from a lead sled.

Absolutely correct. I am a huge fan of the lead sled, BUT NEVER use one with a double. The wrist of a double is frail compared to the full length stock of a bolt action. Abrupt halt to the recoil impulse puts significant strain on the head of the stock where it joins the action. Moreover, the rifle will shoot differently than when supported by the hand and allowed to recoil normally.

 

[mikecatt13]

No, no, no

And more no.

Every expert including manufacturers state not to shoot DOUBLE RIFLES from a lead sled.

Guess I incorrectly used "lead sled" instead of "rest", sorry to ruffle so many feathers over it.

As I stated, I'm not a double expert specifically, but theres no way you could ever get me to zero a gun or test groups, loads, or regulation from sticks. Too many variables. But I shoot a Blaser so I'm looking for sub moa accuracy and MAYBE 1.5-2 moa max between barrels out of my 470NE, and even tighter out of my .375 and .30-06 (which is 1/2moa same barrel sub moa between the 2 at 100yds) so I guess it depends on your standards of what you're after too

 

[jacques smith]

It’s my opinion that all guns should FIT the shooter but most can get by with being close
With heavier calibers and doubles FIT becomes paramount. I fully agree with deewayne on this. Red leg is correct in all advise about standing and using a rest. I own a 470 double and cannot imagine wanting to use a bench for sighting in. Lonnie cripp at superior ammo can build u a much better round than hornady Best of luck and welcome to a whole new deal

 

[Thumper Mcgee]

Could you bore-sight a double?

 

[Red Leg]

Guess I incorrectly used "lead sled" instead of "rest", sorry to ruffle so many feathers over it.

As I stated, I'm not a double expert specifically, but theres no way you could ever get me to zero a gun or test groups, loads, or regulation from sticks. Too many variables. But I shoot a Blaser so I'm looking for sub moa accuracy and MAYBE 1.5-2 moa max between barrels out of my 470NE, and even tighter out of my .375 and .30-06 (which is 1/2moa same barrel sub moa between the 2 at 100yds) so I guess it depends on your standards of what you're after too

The odds of you getting 1.5 - 2 MOA L/R x L/R at 100 yards with that rifle is remote. I have a double that currently does that, but it is designed for that sort of accuracy. I suspect the test target with rifle has two shots (one from each barrel) inside three inches at 50 meters. That means two shots inside six inches at 100 meters. The vast majority are designed to be minute of buffalo out to about 70 meters. With a load it really likes, you should be able to get a 2-inch 4 shot 50 meter group.

Sticks - particularly the new four leg/two support point variety are a superb way to work up loads for a double.

 

[MMAL]

Absolutely correct. I am a huge fan of the lead sled, BUT NEVER use one with a double. The wrist of a double is frail compared to the full length stock of a bolt action. Abrupt halt to the recoil impulse puts significant strain on the head of the stock where it joins the action. Moreover, the rifle will shoot differently than when supported by the hand and allowed to recoil normally.

While agree with this statement in general if you ever watch a YouTube video of a mfg regulating a gun it is from effectively from a lead sled. They put the gun in a cradle that although is not technically a lead sled does the exact same thing. Just saying.

I agree there have been some doubles damaged in lead sleds I think it is vital to confirm that the gun is shooting correctly. I do not use one but in working up a hand load to mimic the regulated load I did shoot it from a bench using sand bags to get the most accurate indication of what accuracy my gun was cable of. Then any deviation in the future off sticks etc is definitely the shooter and not the gun.

 

[Tanks]

Guess I incorrectly used "lead sled" instead of "rest", sorry to ruffle so many feathers over it.

As I stated, I'm not a double expert specifically, but theres no way you could ever get me to zero a gun or test groups, loads, or regulation from sticks. Too many variables. But I shoot a Blaser so I'm looking for sub moa accuracy and MAYBE 1.5-2 moa max between barrels out of my 470NE, and even tighter out of my .375 and .30-06 (which is 1/2moa same barrel sub moa between the 2 at 100yds) so I guess it depends on your standards of what you're after too

The standard from double rifle manufacturers (at least for Heym) is a 4 shot 2" inch group maximum at 50 meters between barrels.

Also, if you are having to shoot at DG with a .470 at 100+ yards, you need better trackers and/or a PH to work with you.

 

[mikecatt13]

The odds of you getting 1.5 - 2 MOA L/R x L/R at 100 yards with that rifle is remote. I have a double that currently does that, but it is designed for that sort of accuracy. I suspect the test target with rifle has two shots (one from each barrel) inside three inches at 50 meters. That means two shots inside six inches at 100 meters. The vast majority are designed to be minute of buffalo out to about 70 meters. With a load it really likes, you should be able to get a 2-inch 4 shot 50 meter group.

Sticks - particularly the new four leg/two support point variety are a superb way to work up loads for a double.

I havent shot the gun a lot yet due to my safari being postponed but when I first got it I shot a scimitar oryx in Texas and used the 470 barrels (before I found and bought the other sets) and with federal factory aframes it was around 1.5" same barrel accuracy and under 3" left to right at 100yds. I plan on working up handloads for the 470 and 375 too which I havent yet started.

It's an S2 though too