Outfitters and political posts

[curtism1234]

This is something that has been on my mind. I certainly don't represent this forum in any capacity. This is simply my opinion on how to keep your hospitality business professional and thriving.

There are a lot of different people who view this website, members and non-members alike. There are obviously a lot of people on this site who love the political banter. There's also US democrats, independents, apoliticals, and republicans here (members or guests) who don't see politics as something they wish to hear on an expensive trip. The same can be said for International members. Political comments from other hunters in camp - that probably doesn't surprise anyone. Political comments from PH's/guides, representatives, and owners - clients do not expect to hear that whether in Africa or Pigsknuckle Arkansas.

There's been a few examples here over the past couple months. It's certainly not been frequent, but we in the US have a presidential election right around the bend and political talk is ramping up. When owners or their representatives discuss politics on here, you risk harming your business and I'm not sure you know that. This forum is the first point of contact for people. If having a non-political trip is preferred for a client, then there's really no point in even inquiring when their are other equally reputable companies here. I think the argument "If X is talked about here, is that the way it's going to be on the trip?" is a very fair question for some clients. And that is certainly not limited to politics.

It just never hurts to err on the side of professionalism when it comes to a business. That is really my only point in this.

Thank you for reading and thank you for the very fair offers you post here,
Curtis

 

[siml]

@curtism1234 , as an outfitter not 100% sure what you pointing at.......guessing you saying we shouldn't voice our opinions about politics. I will state I support the republican party and for what they stand for, same as being a Christian, will stand up for what I believe. But will also not deny another person his/her beliefs.

 

[Brent in Az]

I understand that discretion is important for some. I also understand that the upcoming election will affect the global hunting market in a negative way, if Hillary is elected.

Many of us are getting nervous, and I'm sure many outfitters are as well. Many livelyhoods are riding on this election. I wouldn't hold it against an outfitter for being vocal about it.

 

[Buckdog]

I AGREE WITH TMS AND SIMON 100% and I couldnt have said it better hats off to you Simon

In a "free" country where we are supposed to have freedom of speech I may not agree with some but I will support their rights of freedom same as they should support mine.
So Curtis I will agree to disagree with your opinion but respect it.

 

[BRICKBURN]

This is an INTERNATIONAL FORUM. Some folks forget that sometimes.

I figure those voicing their opinions publicly provide a great way to screen someone. If they provide intelligent discourse, no matter whether I agree with them or not, that is fine with me.

If they (Outfitter, PH or Client) are not gentleman enough to know when the others around them do not want to enter into this type of conversation and offer others the decency and respect everyone deserves then you find yourself lucky to have learned this before you spent the money.

If someone chooses to risk their business opportunity by voicing an opinion, that is up to them.

In my books you are free to blather. I have an ignore button if I find you offensive.

 

[CAustin]

Curtism I have traveled in other countries and have often found non Americans to be very interested in our political process. In some cases I have met people who were concerned about how we elect our leaders and the implications that has for the rest of the world.

You make a valid point that perhaps there are some who would not hunt with outfitter X because of a political comment made. However, I don't think that there are soooo many of those folks on this forum as to cause great hardship to that outfitter through say a mass boycott of his company.
I also don't think that because someone makes a political comment on this forum that it means politics will be discussed in camp.

I wonder if what you are suggesting is really nothing more than political correctness rather than professionalism. Don't say anything that could offend anyone anywhere anytime. In my opinion political correctness is in the eye of the beholder. What offends me is different than what might offend someone else. We all say things that others disagree with from time to time.

Me......I'm just a hunter who happens to live in the USA. If I choose to make comment on current politics .......I will do so with the First Amendment in mind.

As Brickburn said.....all of us have the ignore button.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Well when it comes to booking a hunting trip I look at it as a business if outfitter X offers what I want with a outstanding reputation and at an affordable price, I am going to book with him regardless of his political affiliation, same as I won't book with someone just because they like a certain candidate.

I am been able to look past politics in a lot of things, my wife is an amazing smart beautiful woman, liberal as all get out, but still my wife. She is also very trusting which is why she believes me when I told her Democrats are voting on November 9th this year.

The point being is that though we all have different beliefs, and yes this election will impact hunting, but the end of the day we are all people and we are all trying to do what we think is best (even when Hillary lies and is a corrupt, she thinks she is doing what is best for her and her political interests). And if anyone does book a hunt with someone because they voiced their political opinions then that is their right to do it.

 

[curtism1234]

Curtism I have traveled in other countries and have often found non Americans to be very interested in our political process. In some cases I have met people who were concerned about how we elect our leaders and the implications that has for the rest of the world.

You make a valid point that perhaps there are some who would not hunt with outfitter X because of a political comment made. However, I don't think that there are soooo many of those folks on this forum as to cause great hardship to that outfitter through say a mass boycott of his company.
I also don't think that because someone makes a political comment on this forum that it means politics will be discussed in camp.

I wonder if what you are suggesting is really nothing more than political correctness rather than professionalism. Don't say anything that could offend anyone anywhere anytime. In my opinion political correctness is in the eye of the beholder. What offends me is different than what might offend someone else. We all say things that others disagree with from time to time.

Me......I'm just a hunter who happens to live in the USA. If I choose to make comment on current politics .......I will do so with the First Amendment in mind.

As Brickburn said.....all of us have the ignore button.

A lot of thoughtful responses. CAustin's struck me the most to dedicate my available response time to.

It's my opinion that it's professionalism and not political correctness. A guided hunt of any sorts is part of the hospitality business. A lot of outfitters (here in the US at least from my experience) do not recognize that, but I firmly believe it is. As such in the hospitality business (which I have professionally been a part of), the goal is to create a facade. No matter what's going on with an employee's life or the inner workings of a business (relationship between the US and Africa for example), it's that person's or business's job to smile and act like everything is splendid. If you think a client is a total moron, it's your job to do everything in your power to say "Yes sir, I'm very sorry about that. Let me fix that for you right away". It's about creating a world class experience whether you're at a luxury operation in africa or a no bells and whistles fishing resort operation.

To the point that political comments won't create hardship for a company, I agree with that. But a company shouldn't be in the business of giving away business. The goal of any busy outfitter should be to put you in the queue and not give your business to someone else. To me, it's never professionally acceptable to say or think "I don't care what someone thinks of me. If he doesn't like this company then don't let the door hit you". Those are normally the companies that eventually don't make it.

I agree a company is free to post whatever they want here.

But I do want every outfitter to know there are some people here who appreciate their lack of political talk and hope that it is the same throughout their operation. The point of my post was not to criticize but to be candid enough to be helpful for those who have not thought about that before. That's all.

 

[wesheltonj]

I am sure that a business, what ever type it is can lose or gain business by expressing the political beliefs. That's the free market. But quite frankly, everyone one is interested in the USA presidential election. I spent 30 minutes answering my Zimbabwean Uber driver in Cape Town about Trump and Clinton and the election. This election has results for everyone, not just the USA. Africa in particular, is very interested, they want to make sure that the money train of US dollars continue to flow into there countries.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.................. But quite frankly, everyone one is interested in the USA presidential election. ..............

Now, now! I am much more interested in whether the DA will come into office in RSA.

 

[Divernhunter]

This is my personal opinion:
Most hunters and outfitters/guides are not the feel-good, tree-hugger, need a safe zone, PC correct, spineless, types. They are not die-hard democraps. They could not support Clinton and her desire to take all firearms away from us. They may have different views on other subjects(welfare/illegal immigration and such) but most have the same or nearly the same views on firearm ownership. AT least we should or we will loose them. The firearm issue should be the big and main point of the election for us. It not you are part of the problem. Again just my opinion.
When we went to South Africa I was interested in the political/social status, culture, trends etc there as were they about the USA. I found it very interesting and it made my trip interesting and informative. Something I would have missed had we not spoken about these things. They are also concerned about the political events in the USA as to how it will effect their country, business and clients. The same can be said---and was discussed---about countries in Europe. It is not just about us in the USA. I was very glad my PH/outfitter and I were able to discuss politics and such as to how it effects each of us and may due so in the future. I learned a lot and learned their prospective which I would not get here especially with the media and their spin on events both here and abroad.

OP---Going just by your post and response I get the feeling you are overly sensitive, maybe need your safe space about politics. Also you just may be pro Clinton but are under the spell that she will not go after our 2nd amendment rights. Or you are just a head-in-the-sand type. This is only my perspective and I may be wrong. My "personal" advise would often be grow a pair, get a thicker skin, get a clue or such. At the very least you seem thin skinned---but then I may be wrong. Since I do not know you personally I am not in the best position to judge you. I can only go by what you write.

I might add if I book a hunt or even go hunting with someone who does not want to talk about this or any other subject then I will/should avoid those topics. I would expect them to do the same. On a website I can just ignore topics I do not wish to see/know/discuss without getting my panties in a bunch or suggesting they not post. That is one of the nice things about the internet ---you can pick and choose what you read/see------something that is more difficult to do in a social setting with other people face to face.

 

[curtism1234]

At the very least you seem thin skinned---but then I may be wrong.

This is the internet, everyone is thin-skinned

 

[rookhawk]

Indeed. You'll not find many hunters in the independent/democrat camp but you'll find some. From a partisan standpoint, the democrats and their administrations have been caustic and antagonistic to hunting as have the liberal/workers/labor parties of the UK and EU.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions as consumers of political benefits to their hobbies or vocations. I for example will do very well when/if Hillary wins as most of my employers have donated handsomely to the Clinton Foundation, Clinton Global Initiative, PACs and her campaign fund. That level of support will limit threats and competition along with higher profit margins for the firms that participated. I get the overspray from that political support on a personal level.

On a conservation/hunting level, make no mistakes that African hunting and big game hunting are only legitimate and legal due to the contributions of Tory, Conservative, Libertarian and Republican efforts worldwide. Surely when someone's livelihood depends on legitimate science and support for hunting as a legal conservation practice, you're going to get super-majority representation of opinions here to support those causes from the right. You cannot fault them for their rhetoric as their financial futures are at stake in this election and others globally.

I'd say you've got to grow a thick skin and appreciate the fact that 90%+ of those in the hunting or safari business are going to have a LOT TO SAY about current geopolitics. It's unreasonable for them to remain silent since their very livelihood relies on legal and administrative decisions of world governments. If you want less inflammatory pro-conservative / anti-liberal sentiments from the hunting community go to progressive lobbies, liberal lobbies, the socialist party and other leftist organizations and demand that they support hunting and safari businesses and causes wholeheartedly. If that were the case, most people wouldn't be quite so politically animated on the latest issues of an US and a THEM because left versus right won't matter as pertains to hunting.

Until then, expect a lot of Go-Trump and I hate Hillary grandstanding.

 

[curtism1234]

Indeed. You'll not find many hunters in the independent/democrat camp but you'll find some.

Thank you for your post

I do have to disagree with this quote though. Polls show 22/23% of liberals/democrats own guns, moderates/independents 36/37%

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...aphics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/

To your direct quote, yes the number of sportsmen falls to 18% of democrats and 32% independents in a 2012 poll.

That may come as a shock or, frankly, people may just discredit it. We are certainly out there in bigger numbers than people think. We are just driven off or underground on forums because the treatment by some on the other side is super aggressive and admitting do outnumber us. I like to think I'm actually thick skinned though for going into the lion's den - almost 20 years of being on various hunting/shooting forums will do that to you.

Nonetheless, I do sincerely thank everyone for a respectful and engaging conversation and will probably just leave this thread at that.

 

[LivingTheDream]

@curtism1234 I would appreciate some insight as to why a gun owner and hunter would vote for the Democratic party and more in particular Hillary Clinton. You can PM me if you want, I just want a different perspective and see what points of view I am missing.

 

[Scott Slough]

I have already voted against Trump ... not real happy that it is for Hillary ... but she is preferable to a misogynist, racist, xenophobic billionaire who thinks that the world owes him.

 

[mrpoindexter]

She does not say mean things.

I have done business all over the world and there is a saying in China that applies to their business dealings but I apply it to many other things:

"Don't listen to what they say. Watch what they do."

 

[curtism1234]

@curtism1234 I would appreciate some insight as to why a gun owner and hunter would vote for the Democratic party and more in particular Hillary Clinton. You can PM me if you want, I just want a different perspective and see what points of view I am missing.

Absolutely, I will pm you sometime tomorrow

 

[LivingTheDream]

@curtism1234 thank you, I really appreciate it.

@Scott Slough thanks for giving an honest answer. I do disagree with you on him being racist and xenophobic. Is there any particular policy related reason you voted for Hillary? The reason I ask is that I haven't found many people you can tell me policy related issue. Not trying to start an argument just try to understand why.

 

[charleslabounty]

Fact - gun ownership, shooting sports, and hunting are political actIvities in the U.S. today.

Fact - the NRA gives ratings to politicians running for office.

Fact - politicians and their "toadies" makes laws and regulations.

Fact - I have two neighbors afraid to put up "Trump" signs in their yards.
Both are combat Veterans.