Pre War Mauser in Schuler Caliber 11.2x72

[Red Leg]

As I get older, I find my taste in rifles and guns is following a similar trajectory. Except for one useful plastic stocked 12 for salt marsh ducks, all my shotguns are SXS's and OU's. Most of my rifles are classics of one type or another with British or Teutonic lines. I am particularly excited about my latest find. It is a pre-war Mauser with a 3/4 stock and long solid-ribbed, half octagon/half round barrel of 28 inches. It is essentially in unfired condition and is in 11.2x72 Schuler.

And what a neat round. 401 gr bullet in .44 cal at 2400 fps for more than 5000 fps of energy. Woodliegh still makes a SP, Bertram has brass, and a set of RCBS tools are on the way. A couple of dealers will turn solids at that weight. If it shoots as well as I suspect it will, I'll take it across the way to duel with a buff next summer. Just a neat rifle.

 

[richteb]

Interesting caliber. Developed around 1920-22, however it never had much success in the US or African for some reason. This is suprising considering the popularity of the 404 Jeffrey Rimless which has a less power then the 11.2. Maybe this can be attributed to fact that the 404 can be built on a standart Mauser action, where as the 11.2 requires a magnum action. I understand that back then these were expensive.

I think if you can get it to shoot accuratly, it should a nice buff cartridge.

 

[RayAtkinson]

Richteb,
The .404 Jefferys and even the huge 416 Rigby can be built on a std. 98 action and has been done by WR and perhaps H&H, but it isn't a particularly good practice and its very hard to make them feed 110%. I have built a number of 404 on std 98s but today I only use the Rem. M-30,36 or 720 and the true magnum Mauser actions..It really works better..

As to why the 404 sold better had more to do with the easy name, the fact that it came in cheap FN rifles, and was issue gun in Africa for the various Game depts. It just had a better mama and daddy I suspect!

The 404 Jefferys is certainly a great caliber, and my all time favorite big bore in a bolt gun..Recoil is not severe, it kills very well indeed and I have found it suitable for all that walks including Hippo and elephant with body shots and solids. I load mine with 95 grs. of IMR-4831 with a 400 gr. bullet at 2653 FPS as a max load in my rifle..My hunting load is 93 grs of same for 2400 plus a little of the same powder.
IMR-4831 is the ONLY powder for the 404 IMO. Rl-15 is a distant second.

 

[philip in china]

I have a 98 pattern Mauser currently in .308. The top of the receiver is marked with the German eagle, 1944 and "DOT" which I believe means it was made in the Dachau slave labour factory. Somebody told me that as it was made so late in the war the quality might be suspect. Does anybody have any comments on that? I would like to reuse it for something bigger but I don't want to do that and then have it fail proof.

 

[sestoppelman]

Ray,
Are you sure of those bullet speeds? I would not think you would lose 250 fps by dropping two grains of slow powder. Just not realistic. Not to mention 2653 would net over 6200 ft/lbs. of energy which aint likely. I love the .404 and believe it to be better than most think, but not that much. In my own .404 I load 72 grs of IMR 4064 for a little better than factory speeds, getting 2230fps with MOA accuracy.

 

[sestoppelman]

Phillip, dot means it was made in Czechoslovakia at the BRNO factory, not Dachau. While late war "hurry up" guns are always a little suspect, I would not be afraid to build a gun on it assuming an inspection by a good gunsmith and I probably wouldnt build some super hotrod out of it. It would be good for whatever size round that could be stuffed in its magazine if kept at standard pressures.

 

[philip in china]

Thank you. I was obviously misinformed. So maybe I should be asking these questions on the "below .375" forum

 

[Canuck]

440 McFarlane

There is a old PH from Bots that was developing a new cartridge based on the 11.2 - a 440 McFarlane. It is suppose to have slightly more velocity than the 11.2.

I am working with the Big Bore Shooting Association in SA on pushing this cartridge through to actual use in the field. Any information on loading data and ballistics for the 11.2 would be appreciated. Ideally with Sochem powders.

Thank you.

 

[sestoppelman]

I am guessing that the old PH from Botswana is Ian McFarlane of the now defunct VIRA Safaris whom I hunted the Okavango with in 1990. Never met Ian but did meet one of his sons, Alister while hunting with Willie Engelbrecht.

 

[grand veneur]

On the occasion of a recently discussion in the Media about a rifle caliber 11,2x72 from Schüler, a use in the 21° Century of this original rifle for buffalo hunting.

 

[R.M.C.]

On the occasion of a recently discussion in the Media about a rifle caliber 11,2x72 from Schüler, a use in the 21° Century of this original rifle for buffalo hunting.

View attachment 565643

Nice buffalo!! The 11.2 has tons of energy!

 

[grand veneur]

Tons of energy yes, but theoretically because in practice there are some problems because that the cartridges fit into the magazine, you have to seat the bullet very deep and this greatly reduces the volume of the case and so the amount of powder. Some authors, including Harald Wolf from HATARI TIMES, were a little too optimistic about this cartridge.

 

[HWL]

Some authors were a little too optimistic about this cartridge.

But it did it's job....

HWL

 

[grand veneur]

I just wanted to warn against getting too enthusiastic.

It's certain that if you could use the full length of the case and also would have better bullets available, it would certainly look better. The cartridge 11,2x72 was but rather adapted to the rifles of Schüler than the contrary.

 

[mark-hunter]

@Red Leg
Thanks for sharing, looking forward for some review of the rifle when purchased, and of course later, a buffalo hunt report!

 

[grand veneur]

Unfortunately, only the Woodleigh 401gr RN SN bullets were available, which are very similar to the originals, but also in terms of the thickness of the wall. I did not have a bullet exit, but I also did not find the bullet either; it probably broke in the game. I was able to observe something similar with the classic RWS 22,5g FMJ bullet of the cartridge 10,75x68 when I hunted buffalos with it.

F.l.t.r. Hornady .458 500gr FMJ and 500gr INTERBOND, Woodleigh .440/11,2mm 401gr RN SN

 

[grand veneur]

In the middle you can see what the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler should look like in order to fit into the magazine of an original rifle from August Schüler. Harald Wolf rightly writes about the picture that if the cartridge were longer, you could provide more performance from it.

An optimal cartridge length would be 89 mm with the bullet from Woodleigh, and with a more modern bullet even longer. Unfortunately only a cartridge with a maximum length of 84,5 mm fits into the magazine.

HATARI TIMES N°11

 

[Red Leg]

@Red Leg
Thanks for sharing, looking forward for some review of the rifle when purchased, and of course later, a buffalo hunt report!

That was almost fifteen years ago. After enough aggra, I gave up on the whole ammunition hurdle and the rifle went to a more deserving and technically gifted new owner.

 

[grand veneur]

I would like other bullets, especially FMJ bullets. CUTTING EDGE once had some on offer, .440 450gr Safari Solid , but unfortunately they was, due to their flattened tip, not suitable.

 

[mark-hunter]

That was almost fifteen years ago. After enough aggra, I gave up on the whole ammunition hurdle and the rifle went to a more deserving and technically gifted new owner.

Ups!
Interesting how old threads get alive! I completely missed the date!
I was a bit surprised how you suddenly diverted from blaser r8 convenience!
The date now explains everything!