Re: How to measure the correct L.O.P. for a double rifle?

[sandman0921]

Hello fellows,

I am new to the African Hunting forum, but have viewed several threads on here. The wealth of information is great, especially in this forum. I have decided to take the plunge, and purchase a double rifle in the next few months in hopes of using it on dangerous game one day, but more-so because I simply want one. In lieu of spending large amounts of money on a custom made / fit rifle, I am looking at some of the modern, but used doubles on Gun Broker, Guns International, etc. such as those form Merkel, Chapuis, Searcy, Kreigoff, etc.. I would love to own a vintage Holland&Holland, Purdey, or Wesley Richards, but unless I win the lottery, that isn't going to happen.

My question, to those more experienced in the ins and outs of double rifles, and who use them frequently, is how do you determine the correct length of pull. I've tried searching for this information here, as well as elsewhere, but it is not easy to come by. I am 6ft 1 in, 220 lbs, and of average build, and on a few of my custom bolt action rifles, 13.75 inches seems to be the ideal length of pull. I've read that the ideal LOP of a double is more akin to that of a side-by-side shotgun, and is generally a little longer than the LOP of a bolt action rifle. Is this correct? I guess my question is there a way to "correctly" determine the double rifle's LOP, or do those who shoot these rifles routinely use the old standard of "crook of the elbow to finger pad", or 2-3 finger breadths from nose to thumb when the rifle is shouldered? I've also seen on Searcy's website a measurement chart that is utilized to custom fit the rifle.

What are the recommendations for someone considering purchasing a used double, and trying to find the correct LOP?

Thanks so much for everyone's help in advance.

 

[Red Leg]

Your height and arm length put you in a bracket which would likely start at 14 inches on the short side thru 14 3/4 on the long side. Refinement is purely subjective. The crook of the elbow thing is of little real value to me. Normally, usually, most of the time double rifles are stocked somewhat shorter than a shotgun's length of pull. For instance, I am 6' 205 lbs with a 34 inch sleeve. On a double shotgun I shoot 14 1/2 to 14 3/4 most comfortably in normal clothes. However, in a double rifle I prefer something around 14 or 14 1/4. Most double rifles can be adjusted with a pad - solid red or leather covered is traditional. Just be careful not to trim too much wood before you are certain what is best for you.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

No experience with doubles outside of being asked to leave the booths for committing the faux pas of drooling all over their wares. But my recommendation is go to SCI where the major manufacturers will be and get measured. If you're going to drop the kind of money a properly made double costs, I think it worth the time and cost to have it done right to your frame.

 

[AkMike]

We're about the same size, and I use the crook of the arm measurement. For me it's 14 1/2 to 15".

Most bolt guns leave the factory with very short LOP's for some reason. Longer ones in the 15" range fit me better.

 

[sandman0921]

Thanks so much for the replies so far. This provides me with a place to start. I hope to make the purchase in the next 2-3 months. I'm really leaning towards a Chapuis or Merkel. If I could find a Searcy in a 470 NE or 500 NE for a good price, I'd definitely like one of his rifles. I'm just looking now, but it's good to have a basis to start with. Red Leg my sleeve length is a 35, so I'm thinking 14 1/4 to 14 1/2 might be a good starting point. If I can find someone that has a try gun, or shop that does custom fitting nearby, I will try and go through a more formal fitting process. Adding a leather wrapped recoil pad for extra length shouldn't be a problem for a competent gunsmith, but what worries me is having to trim some length on a fine piece of walnut, and having it look acceptable. Do any of you have someone that you can recommend, for future reference, that is a good stock maker, or does this type of work on these doubles? Thanks again.

 

[Badger Matt]

sandman - If you're in eastern TN, shoot me a PM if you'd like to take a road trip down to Greenville, SC and shoot my Merkel 470 NE. You could combine it with a trip to our Cabela's.

 

[spike.t]

couple of searcy doubles here http://www.heymusa.com/heym_inventory.htm

 

[sandman0921]

Badger Matt, I appreciate the invite. If I'm ever that way, I'd definitely like a chance to shoot your Merkel. Spike.t....that's just cruel. Now I'm going to be drooling over those two rifles everyday......... Man those are some beautiful rifles.

 

[spike.t]

Badger Matt, I appreciate the invite. If I'm ever that way, I'd definitely like a chance to shoot your Merkel. Spike.t....that's just cruel. Now I'm going to be drooling over those two rifles everyday......... Man those are some beautiful rifles.

yup love causing temptation when it comes to double rifles.....

 

[Mike McCarty]

I have a merkel 416 rigby for sale. I lowered the price some. It is on the classified forum. They make the LOP on some dangerous game rifles a little short so they do not hang up when you are mounting the rifle quickly.

 

[Keiler]

Seems logic that they might make the stock no to long, to prevent a ‘hang up’ in a situation asking for quick action.
As I read on the forum, especially concerning the heftier calibers, perceived recoil is partly/substantially depending on LOP, but also weight of the rifle, barrel length,… I guess.
So probably it will be mostly the hunter getting used to, or even getting tuned in to the rifle?
Because an optimal LOP will be measured in a relaxed, semi-static situation (crook of elbow to finger pad) and then it is reduced a little to prevent hang up for when things could get a little hairy.
So is there a golden standard to individualized, custom fitted stocks, or is it just an expensive option, mainly increasing the margin of gain of the producer?

 

[gprippers]

All my shotguns and rifles are a bit different depending on what im really going to use them for. If its a duck/goose gun that im shooting in very cold temps then ill be wearing thicker/more clothing so i like a shorter stock so when i go to shoulder the shotgun its a cleaner action, but i also practice for this when shooting skeet, 5 stand and sporting clays by shooting everything low gun. Rifles, DR's or bolt guns depend on scoped or not and again clothing ill be wearing most of the time when using that rifle.

Might sound strange but thats how i think of it when it comes to my hunting group of rifles/shotguns. I dont get too crazy about LOP when it comes to target/paper punchers/steal shooters as most "standard/factory" LOPs work fine for me. Ive only ever had 4 shotguns truly "fitted" me in my life and the rest have been thru but pads/shoulder pads etc or just plain lucky rifle/shotgun feels ok. Seems like the factory Beretta shotguns dont fit me as well out of the box as they have longer LOPs...where as Browning O/U's fit me better out of the box. I guess id rather have a shorter LOP in a shotgun as its easier for me to adjust to that because of my shooting style??? Rifles depend on style and usage for sure.

Well...i hope i havent confused you as much as i have myself with this paragraph or two of great wisdom on LOP's! LOLOLOLOL! Oh hell...pick it up and hit stuff with it...thats what i do! LOL!