Recoil Insights

[scoober78]

With lots of time to think and internet, and range time curtailed, I finally got out and enjoyed a session at the range yesterday. Trying to do a lot with the visit, I checked the pattern on my Turkey shotgun, shot a new-to-me Model 70 .375 H&H, shot my 6.5 Creedmoor Precision rifle etc...

Patterning the turkey gun, and then shooting the .375 back-to-back was a bit of a surprise. The H&H is my first foray into owning medium bores <.300 and I’ll be honest, it was a pussycat to shoot! What a surprise, especially after getting what felt like belted by my turkey loads. With that feeling in my shoulder, I came back and ran the numbers in the JBM recoil calculator. Talk about shocked! The three photos are my .375 H&Hs numbers, a generic .416 Rem/Rigby’s numbers, and then my turkey shotgun. Apparently the .416 would be a pussycat too compared to my turkey gun!

We spend lots of time talking about how this caliber compares to another, which choice would be better for someone who is recoil sensitive etc...but then think nothing of strapping the average 14 yo new hunter to a 12ga turkey load like the one above? Why so much more concern about DG recoil?

Hope this will be a fun discussion for our bizzare Coronavirus times...

 

[CJW]

12 ga. turkey loads are no joke. Especially 3.5". Hunting you don't feel it but patterning one in sitting position sucks. Never again. I can pattern one standing up. Why was I worried about my 458wm recoil?

 

[Ray B]

I have a few friends that are avid turkey hunters. they hunt from a small tent blind which puts them sitting on a stool looking through a small window. If they shoot a 3.5" 12 ga thay generally end up on their back, so after a time or two of that they go back to goose loads for the turkey.

 

[scoober78]

12 ga. turkey loads are no joke....Why was I worried about my 458wm recoil?

That was my first thought too!

 

[Tra3]

Truth!
The lack of a scope makes it not seem as bad, but after a few shots you’ll get a nice bruise!

My hardest recoiling firearm is a 7lb Knight ultralight .50 cal muzzleloader pushing a 300 grain bulllet behind 120 grains of blackhorn 209. A guy is thankful for a tree harness if you spot it from the tree stand.

 

[Alistair]

This is food for thought.

I have some 50gram (770gr) 12 bore loads of no. 3 shot that I use for foxes out of my o/u occassionally. More than 70ft/lb recoil in a 7.5lb gun and I think nothing of firing a couple off. I've never shot one from the bench of course.

In comparison, the 375 chucks out a mere 40ftlb in a 10lb rifle and yet people say it has significant recoil. Shows how much of it is based on perception and what we expect, not reality.

Even my normal 32gram late season game loads put out over 30ftlb and I'll shoot a couple boxes of those through a 6.5lb side by side on a good day without batting an eye.

I guess everyone 'knows what to expect' of a 12 bore as almost everyone has had one at some point, so they don't even think about it.

Good post!
Al.

 

[scoober78]

Truth!
The lack of a scope makes it not seem as bad, but after a few shots you’ll get a nice bruise!

My hardest recoiling firearm is a 7lb Knight ultralight .50 cal muzzleloader pushing a 300 grain bulllet behind 120 grains of blackhorn 209. A guy is thankful for a tree harness if you spot it from the tree stand.

Indeed. Mine isn’t that light, but the first time I muscled up to a full magnum 300 grain load...phew. Good point. Another great example, and definitely a former kicker than the .375...

Here’s the JBM numbers for your ML. 10% stiffer than a .416.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Remember though a flinch will affect your shotgun shooting differently to rifle.

 

[BeeMaa]

I have a Benelli SBE2 that weighs about 7.5# with a rail and micro red dot.
It's my turkey gun and was a PITA to pattern from the bench.
I tried the 3.5" shells, but couldn't handle the recoil...it was just too much for me.
Found some really good 3" shells that pattern very well.

Compared to my (recently sold) CZ550 375H&H, no contest...I rather shoot the rifle.
The shotgun, even with just 3" shells, is right on the border of too much for me.
I'm fine for hunting, but forget doing the bench without a Lead Sled.

 

[scoober78]

Remember though a flinch will affect your shotgun shooting differently to rifle.

How do you mean? End result-wise, a miss is a miss.

 

[Opposite Pole]

How do you mean? End result-wise, a miss is a miss.

You are right off course but a shottie patterns much wider comparing to a rifle’s single projectile. Also rifles are often used at a far greater distance meaning our mistakes are greatly magnified. 1 inch at 10yds is 20 inches at 200. There’s more room for error with a shottie but obviously a miss is a miss.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

It’s not turkey loads, but I shoot Brenneke Black magic slugs for deer out of a BPS with a rifled barrel. I don’t notice it hunting but I won’t shoot more than 9 or 10 while practicing, and won’t shoot it sitting down.

 

[Tra3]

With this general knowledge I am training my son through a progressive increase in recoil. I haven’t had him shoot anything substantial yet, because I want to help him avoid learning a flinch and I don’t want him to fear shooting any specific rifle/shotgun.
My personal progression was BB gun - .22LR - 20 gauge - .270 win. The jump to a single shot 6 lb 20 gauge with no recoil pad was massive and unnecessary.

how did you all progress in recoil amount? What are you doing with your children?

 

[BeeMaa]

how did you all progress in recoil amount? What are you doing with your children?

Started with 22lr at age 5 or 6
6.5x55SE around age 10 along with a Browning A5 16 bore.
30-06 the following year and a O/U 12 bore.
I think I was 15 or 16 when I first shot a 300WM.

Never thought I'd need anything more...until I joined this site.

 

[scoober78]

What are you doing with your children?

My general philosophy is more and smaller steps. I think two things cause flinch...recoil and report, and honesty, at least for me, I think report is as big a cause OR BIGGER, than recoil. I went from a .22lr to a 7.3 pound .308 in one jump...without ear plugs (hey, it was the 80s!) and fought for years to fix my flinch.

With my kids, I try to take report and recoil in separate steps. .22 long suppressed —-.22 Long rifle—.223 (9# rifle)—6.5 CM (10# rifle)—6.5 CM (7# rifle)—whatever else they want to shoot. The loud but soft .20-.22 caliber center fire is a really key jump because it gets them to realize that loud doesn’t mean painful.

All shooting until hunting prep done with double hearing protection...plugs and muffs. Take the muffs away for the last step.

I realize this is a bit of a luxury, but I think being deliberate and taking steps that add report THEN recoil makes a huge difference.

 

[CJW]

how did you all progress in recoil amount? What are you doing with your children?

That's kind of a tough question because of all the different makes, calibers, shooting positions, loads, etc. If I shoot a 30-06 off of the bench or in the sitting position wrong or with an inferior recoil pad, I'll bruise myself and go home early. If I shoot it standing with a better posture I will be fine even with an inferior pad. Even off the bench you can mitigate recoil so you don't punish yourself. A 45 cal. big bore can be more comfortable to shoot than a 30 cal. magnum if it's weighted and built right. You could ruin a person with the wrong 30 cal. or as noted here, a 12 ga. shotgun. I've heard grown men complain about some of the 7mm magnums though I've never shot one.

What I'm saying is don't focus on the caliber so much as proper shooting position, controllable loads, proper recoil pads, length of pull, proper rifle weight, etc. I like a longer LOP with larger recoiling guns so that my arms act more like shock absorbers. I'm also a firm believer in maximum hearing protection with larger guns, not just for your ears but for your shoulder. This means ear plugs and muffs. I firmly believe that alot of your perception of recoil comes from a loud boom.

I have an 8.5 pound 458wm and I know of grown men who wouldn't touch it. Even with 4 in the gun and 9 in a holder on the stock with no scope it only goes a touch over 9.5 pounds. Most agree that a 45 cal. needs to be around 11 lbs. It's all in how you shoot it and I won't be shooting it off of the bench anytime soon.

 

[James Adamson]

Worst recoil I have ever experienced was a double discharge while shooting geese with a friends double 4. The double 4 weighed 27lb but boy did it seem lively as it disappeared over my shoulder. I got the goose though.

 

[curtism1234]

My personal progression was BB gun - .22LR - 20 gauge - .270 win. The jump to a single shot 6 lb 20 gauge with no recoil pad was massive and unnecessary.

how did you all progress in recoil amount? What are you doing with your children?

I also went from bb gun, 22lr, to six pound 20 ga high brass game at probably age 10. After I cried and dad told me to grow a pair, he finally bought low brass for a box or two. Then on to 50 cal sidelock muzzleloader round balls, then to 385gr conical slugs (kicked like a mule but I was 14 by then) - killed my first 3 or 4 deer with that muzzleloader since the firearms season on public land was suicide. The first centerfire I ever shot was a 30-06 at age 16

My daughter is about to turn 1. I am going to start her on a bb gun around 5 years old and a 22lr a couple years after that. Since I am my father's son, she will probably use the same 20ga single shot for squirrels
First centerfire will be 11-12 years old (I think that should be the min for deer hunting - things should be earned, not given). In all likelihood, I'll probably buy Remington Managed Recoil for my 7mm rem mag and essentially make it a 7mm-08. 7 3/4 pounds scoped and 13" lop. I'm a product of an older generation, I don't plan on buying a "youth rifle" to use for 2 years ​

 

[BeeMaa]

Worst recoil I have ever experienced was a double discharge while shooting geese with a friends double 4. The double 4 weighed 27lb but boy did it seem lively as it disappeared over my shoulder. I got the goose though.

I'm sure the doubling wasn't pleasant.
However, filling the sky with a 1/2# of shot (1/4# per barrel) or more, I hope you got it.

 

[James Adamson]

I'm sure the doubling wasn't pleasant.
However, filling the sky with a 1/2# of shot (1/4# per barrel) or more, I hope you got it.

6 1/2 oz of AAA (3 1/4oz per barrel) I did get the goose. I was more worried about damaging my friends old very expensive vintage gun, thankfully it was ok.