Redding - Hornady die comparison

[Ray B]

Following a recent discussion of reloading dies, I sought to compare a set of Redding and Hornady dies, both in 404 Jeffery size. I determined three levels of comparison- general design, measurements, and potential accuracy. I used 3 new cases for each set. Norma cases were fired in the same rifle with the same moderate load. Both sizer dies are of the expander button style, however the first sizing was done without the button to check the reduction in diameter accomplished by the die. While one die of a brand is not a significant sample, the Redding die reduced the neck a few 1/10,000th more than the Hornady. The cases were sized again with the button in place. The second sizing showed virtually no difference in finished case dimensions of the neck thickness, inside and outside diameter and web diameter. A point of interest with the Redding die is that the expander button may be removed through the top of the die while on the Hornady it must be inserted through the bottom. I don't have the means to measure the portion of the die that sizes the neck, but it seems that it should be within the case diameter of the button. To be larger would indicate insufficient sizing, But as the finished cases show, both necks were reduced to inside diameter .420 so it isn't an issue. The expander on the Hornady is football shaped with only a slight ring of final dimension. It allows for shaping irregular necks while having sufficient width to size the neck. The Redding has a squared type button that has a reduced diameter for entering the case then a full diameter sizing portion with about 1/4" bearing surface.

The Redding dies are of the traditional design: die is machined out to case dimensions then a threaded hole where a rod containing either the expander button or seater fitting is inserted. the Hornady dies contain several parts, The decap/expander has a rod similar to traditional, but rather than threading into the die body, there is a compression fitting that connects the two. the threads on the rod are quite flattened. The compression plug is tightened until the beveled portion of the fitting contacts a shoulder in the die, forcing it in, tight against the rod. The contact on the rod was minimal and very little force on the rod would cause it to skip a thread as the rod pushed up. I suppose this is a nice feature if the loader is using cases where the decap pin may be hitting the case web, as it would prevent breaking the pin. But I do prefer the more solid arrangement.

The Hornady seating die appears to be a cross between a traditional design and the in-line style of some benchrest dies. My guess is that the body of the die is similar in dimension to several cases. The insert is what would determine the cartridge. The cartridge and bullet would be inserted into the sleeve, then pushed into the die until the bullet contact the top fitting and is pushed into the case, the design is very modular.

Both sets of dies are made with precision and I haven't had a chance to load, shoot, repeat the cases sufficient to reach a valid conclusion regarding die and case longevity and potential accuracy of loadings. Both sets are expander button dies rather than the bushing style, so extreme accuracy is not an expectation, but one doesn't generally need a 1/4 minute load with the 404 Jeffery, so they are both likely acceptable on that measure.
So review the photos and decide for yourself if you think the Reddings are worth considerably more than the Hornadys.

 

[CBH Australia]

My first set were RCBS in .222, then Redding in .308 and the bloke selling at the gun show assured me they are the best etc etc. yes they are good dies. I particularly like Redding shell holders as they are knurled offering grip when switching the mounts out.

I like the lock inputs on Hornady, the depriming Rod is is posititively secure with less pressure simply by design. There die boxes stack well and are hinged not just hinging on the plastic. I think the oval expander makes sense.

I have bought both brands since, partly availability and pricing.

I have on order some Redding, a rifle club store had these t a good price it seems to be their preferred brand. I spoke on the phone and the fella said Redding are the most common with loaders on their range. He also stated a lot are using Redding bushing dies . One I guess they work and 2 if the store are stocking them it makes sense.

It sounds like the tolerances on the sets are good and even similar.
I think there will be many variables that affect accuracy and dies are one part of the equation.
Many people are happy with Lee dies and load accurate ammo.

 

[John Tanuwidjaja]

I always prefer Redding when I can get them and there was a time when the premium for Redding dies was not as high as they are now. I now prefer to resize (FL) removing the expander then in a separate step run the die again with expander in. Runout is reduced dramatically. Whether it matters for hunting ammo - possibly not but makes me feel I've done the best I can. That's are lot more convenient to do with the Redding style spindle (& RCBS) rather than the Hornady zip spindle die. But have quite a few Hornady dies too and never had an issue either and produces good ammo.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Redding and RCBS. Have had failures using Hdy dies. Cadillac/Hyundai.

 

[mdwest]

I think there will be many variables that affect accuracy and dies are one part of the equation.
Many people are happy with Lee dies and load accurate ammo.

I know a lot of guys get wrapped up in "accuracy".. and for a BR shooter or a serious long range shooter, I can understand why paying significantly more, for only a tiny bit more precision might be of interest...

But...

For hunting ammo.. even ammo intended to be shot at 400-500 yards.. a true long range hunting shot..

My experience has been that pretty much any set of dies will get the job done to standard as long as quality components are used and the person doing the loading pays attention and is precise in his actions..

I've got Lee, Hornady, RCBS, and Redding dies at the reloading bench... I pretty much buy whatever is available and reasonably priced at the time I am looking to make a purchase.. I have no brand loyalty at all..

All of my hunting rifles will shoot sub MOA with hand loads.. a couple of them will shoot an easy sub .5 MOA..

Long ago, when I was a fairly regular "precision" and "long range" shooter (worked as a "sniper" on a major metro area SWAT team.. and did a lot of competition and just "fun" shooting at 600-1000 yard ranges).. I loaded a ton of .308 "match" ammo that performed on par with Lake City Match and Federal Gold Medal Match... using Lee dies..

I dont know that better than .5 MOA out of a hunting rifle.. or better than LCM or GMM performance for most shooters is really necessary.. or that most shooters can shoot as well as their rifles/ammo at that point..

So why spend a ton more for "better" dies?

 

[Ray B]

With regard to obtaining accuracy and brass longevity the choice isn't between this brand or that, It's between sizing button vs bushing dies and clearly if the loader wants to go to the trouble of getting the neck diameter uniform and using the appropriate bushing, superior loads can be obtained.

 

[bruce moulds]

bushing dies can certainly improve case life by reducing the ammount of sizing.
however they are not a universal elixir.
best benefit of bushing dies comes with neckturned cases.
this because you size without an expander, and internal neck dimensions are the same.
with unturned cases, internal necks vary with neck thickness, causing differing neck tension.
the other potential with bushing dies is the stack effect of machining error, both in making the bushings and where they seat causing runout.
if luck would allow, the best is to have a std fls die made to max spec, and a chamber in the rifle made to min spec., but this is not a likely scenario.
how you set up dies in the press can have a big effect on accuracy, whatever die you use.
bruce.

 

[Ridgewalker]

I’ve had more problems with Hornady dies than any other brand I’ve used...RCBS, C&H, Redding, Forrester and even Lee. I also don’t care for the floating bullet seater. It’s probably just me doing something wrong, but I’ll only buy Hornady if I cannot find something else.

 

[Asho99]

I’ve had more problems with Hornady dies than any other brand I’ve used...RCBS, C&H, Redding, Forrester and even Lee. I also don’t care for the floating bullet seater. It’s probably just me doing something wrong, but I’ll only buy Hornady if I cannot find something else.

I agree I don’t like the hornady seating die but it could be me

 

[SDPlinker]

Something that may be important to some as myself, as to the price difference, Hornady made in China and Redding made in USA.

 

[fourfive8]

Hornady not unlike Lee, has attempted to be more innovative is some of their designs. But honestly, the older tried and true designs of most reloading die makers are still very solid. I would stick with the likes of Redding, RCBS or Lyman for most applications. The one innovation outside the norm that I use exclusively was not designed by Hornady but by Lee… the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Other than that most all mine are Redding, RCBS or Lyman. Some of the Hornady designs leave me scratching my head…”what were they thinking”

 

[Inline6]

Have loaded ammo with all the dies I have seen listed here. Have shot 5 shot groups well below .25MOA with all of them.

Brass prep helps with consistency. When you are looking for small groups all aspects start to matter.

 

[Asho99]

Hornady not unlike Lee, has attempted to be more innovative is some of their designs. But honestly, the older tried and true designs of most reloading die makers are still very solid. I would stick with the likes of Redding, RCBS or Lyman for most applications. The one innovation outside the norm that I use exclusively was not designed by Hornady but by Lee… the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Other than that most all mine are Redding, RCBS or Lyman. Some of the Hornady designs leave me scratching my head…”what were they thinking”

How do Lyman dies compare to rcbs and redding. Is the spindle as strong on the Lyman

 

[fourfive8]

How do Lyman dies compare to rcbs and redding. Is the spindle as strong on the Lyman

IMO, the combination depriming/neck expanding spindle is the weak link in all common designs. Used properly, they all will function as intended. One oopsy or misalignment or sloppy procedure or oversight can result in a breakage, ruined case, jammed die or poorly reloaded cartridge.

The exception to my normal procedures is for loading special target ammo for which I use a completely different system including: neck thickness trimmers, custom Redding benchrest type neck sizer dies and collet type bullet seating alignment dies. However, all these extreme procedures are are a PITA that are really not required for hunting ammo.

In the past 15-20 years, my methodologies have evolved and changed for reloading most hunting and non-benchrest type cartridges. Here are the steps.... I use a separate depriming die for all cases. I brush the inside of neck with dip brush and mica. Clean the case with acetone and paper towel. Clean the primer pocket, then lightly roll lube case on a pad. Then use the appropriate and correctly adjusted sizing die with decapper/neck expander spindle removed. The sizing die is set to rifle's chamber allowing for just enough headspace clearance and body sizing so no resistance is felt when chambering. Then clean lube from case again with acetone. Trim neck and lightly debur. Then use appropriate Lyman M die to expand neck to approx. .001-2" under bullet diameter. Then prime with hand primer. Charge with scale and trickler. Seat bullet. Crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die as final step for most ammo. I complete each step for the entire lot of cases being reloaded before going to next step. After the charging step, I visually inspect all cases for over/under charge. I have found this method produces the most consistent and reliable hunting ammo that I can load. I would trust it for my rifles over any factory ammo.

 

[Inline6]

Took the expander ball out of my dies long ago. You just do not get consistent neck tension.

Don't worry with turning necks, have not found it beneficial. Some people have chambers cut so tight. The only way they will work is neck turning.

I tumble my brass to clean it. It is usually full of carbon and dust. It is just easier for me. I'm using a wet system with SS media.

Dry brass

Resizing dies are set to bump the shoulder.002-.003 at the most.

Lube is a good thing, what a lot of people don't know. If you change lubricants. It would be in your best interest to clean the die beforehand. For whatever reason the differ lubricants do not play well together and you will stick a case.

After sizing tumble again to clean off the lube.

Dry brass

Giraud power trimmer to trim and chamfer inside and out.

Then run the neck through an expander mandrel.

Prime cases, I have it so I use it. It is a primer seater built by primal rights. Competition primer seater, It is not necessary.

I used an Auto-Trickler for my powder, again I have it.

At this point I think it is personal preference. Once the powder goes in the case. It goes to the press and a bullet tops it off. It is just the way I do it. Form my prospective I know 100% the powder charge on the scale that was correct just went into the case in my hand. No way to load on an empty case. Seating bullet on a 375h&h and under I don't crimp the bullet. I don't want to risk deformities in the bullet by over crimping. I have never experienced a problem with this method. The true big bores well you are inside of 100 yards so should not be a problem. 375s and under...well 300 yards plus for a 375 is a possibility for that reason I want the bullet true as possible.

Like @fourfive8 has stated. Different ways work the same. It is a process that need to work for you. If someone take care and loads everything with a lee starter set. Chances are they will have better ammo than 95% of the factory offerings. With that said, was shooting 185 Federal Gold Metal Match out of my 308 a few months ago. It had an SD of 3.4fps for 5 rounds. I was pretty impressed with those numbers for factory ammo.

 

[Ray B]

With regard to the Lyman-RCBS die comparison there are two features of the Lyman decap/expander that I prefer. the decap pin has a shoulder that is in line with the spindle, held in place by the expander button. the expander button has a more gradual slope to the sizing diameter. the RCBS pin slides into a slot in the spindle where notches are squeezed against the pin as the sizing button is tightened. The sizing button has a noticeable step to the sizing diameter. the RCBS design allows for the button to loosen slightly and the pin can easily fall out. If this happens when sizing a case, it can cause problem and a delay. the Lyman design may loosen slightly but the pin will be held in place.

in the photo there are three dies, from right to left, the RCBS, Lyman and actually my preferred design is on the left, a LE Wilson bushing die. there is no sizing button as the sizing is done externally by a bushing. the decap pin is a solid part of the spindle so it is held tightly in place, won't come loose and is more resistant to breakage.

 

[C.W. Richter]

I’ve had more problems with Hornady dies than any other brand I’ve used...RCBS, C&H, Redding, Forrester and even Lee. I also don’t care for the floating bullet seater. It’s probably just me doing something wrong, but I’ll only buy Hornady if I cannot find something else.

Hdy are the only dies that have ever broken/bent on me. 3 of them (they replaced the broken innards FOC, and one broke again-they were replaced soon after with RCBS. The slop on the top die threads was so much on one body that the collet shaft would rock when tightened down, in-place. lol) Like many others, nearly all brands of dies (including old Lee with NO lockrings-which i replaced with RCBS set screw types!!) produced all-shots touching or nearly one-hole groups in most rifles. A couple had worn bores and resulted in 1"+/-. Proper handloading typically yields greater accuracy (I've shot 0.5" groups with quality factory ammo but 2"+ with others. 0.5"or less is possible with handloading in all quality accurized guns.) Props for the cool Hdy die boxes. I put the hotrodded Lee dies inside of 'em. No issues with their bullets.

 

[Capt_Oscar]

Something that may be important to some as myself, as to the price difference, Hornady made in China and Redding made in USA.

All of my Hornady New Dimension Dies say Made In USA

 

[SDPlinker]

Yes, unfortunately though some products legitimately or not, are assembled and or a small part added in order to label made in USA. The majority of Hornady and others are made in China. I am a certified Leupold and Harley Davidson fan boy, but! I am very diligent when I order something from Leupold and state if not made in USA I will not take it. As for Harley Davidson, I no longer purchase, I still own a few but have not purchased new since 2014. I look diligently when I order parts for bikes and firearms, as well as clothing and everyday items that they are USA or as close as possible not to include China. Thank you for purchasing USA made dies.

 

[Ray B]

some products are assembled in USA.

Having the parts made elsewhere then sent to the USA for assembly; then the large label that says Assembled in the USA is common. 60 years ago I got a Bushnell Banner scope for Christmas. It said parts manufactured in Japan, assembled in the USA. That was about the transition when things made in Japan became quality items. I suppose things made in China will also make that transition but with China a purchase is supporting a government that is adversarial to the universe.