Reduced/Practice Loads for DGRs

[JPmbogo]

I recently acquired 50 rounds of 470 NE by Nyati, Inc. They are listed at 1150 fps with a 500r round nose jacketed bullet - powder and charge not indicated. I have not tried them yet, but the idea certainly interests me for other reduced loads for my 450/400, 450 NE and 458 Lott. Apparently, the standard powder for such reduced loads is Accurate 5744. According to Terry Wieland in his Dangerous-Game Rifles tome, one should load a given case to the base of the bullet (i.e., determine full-case capacity) with said powder and then use 40-50% of the measured load for lead bullets and 60-65% for jacket bullets. I am seeking information from those who have tried such loads. I would add that since Nyati is not using lead bullets with highly reduced loads, it would seem that is not necessary other than lead bullets are normally less expensive.

 

[Ray B]

I would be suspect of any load that is only 40% of capacity. I load reduced charges for several cartridges including 375 H&H & 458 Win Mag though none for the cartridges you note. However the methods would be similar. I previously used SR4759 but since it has been discontinued I have been switching over to Trail Boss. The procedure for it is to take an empty case and fill it with Trail Boss to the level that would be the base of the bullet. Then weigh the powder. That would be the maximum charge. The starting load is 70% of that weight. It doesn't seem to matter what cartridge or even bullet weight for the cartridge- the process is the same. It can be used with either cast or jacketed bullets.

 

[fourfive8]

I use several loads and techniques for large capacity cases that use reduced loads of either 4759 or 5744 under cast bullets. Trailboss is a different "animal" though. It is extremely low density but has a very fast burn rate and can approach Bullseye. Caution is the word. You can go to the Hodgdon site and search Trailboss for recommendations for loads. I found Trailboss to be an excellent and safe powder for very high expansion ratio cartridges using cast bullets in the category of... 45 Colt, 45 ACP, 38 Sp, 44 Sp, 44-40 and 38-40.

The accepted reduced load, as recommended by Hodgdon for jacketed bullets, is 60% of average max load listed for H4895. Here's link for that info

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf?_ga=2.70943952.1785298226.1603194580-147738970.1586200896

 

[CM McKenzie]

I use the H4895 60 percent rule in my 9.3x62 cast loads. I have not tried it in any larger capacity cases.

 

[fourfive8]

I think the last time I used a 60% load was in 416 Rem a month ago. My normal full pressure load with 400 gr bullet yields about 2350 fps. I loaded a bunch of fire forming/plinking type loads with some 400 gr DGXs and 60% of max H4895. Out of curiosity checked the vel of the 60% loads- the mean velocity was about 1750 with a decent SD. But the accuracy was so/so at about 4” at 100. Barrel harmonics must not have been conducive to good accuracy. A normal load @ 2300-2350 fps with most 400 gr bullets in this rifle consistently shoots right at 1” @ 100.

 

[The Engineer]

In my Heym 416 Rigby I use a 400gr Midway "seconds" bullet over 42gr of 5744 as an inexpensive practice load. It shoots right at minute of angle for three shots.

 

[V.Veritas]

I have tried this for 450/400NE in a Ruger No.1 and it worked great for me:

Reduced Recoil Loading Data for the .400-.416 Big Bores

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Trail boss has been good to me.

 

[Ray B]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (1973) lists loads for cast bullets for several cartridges including 375 H&H, 378 Wby, 458 WM & 460 Wby. I note a few:
375H&H 269gr w/GC 17.5 gr Unique 1460 fps; 23.5 gr Blue Dot 1645 fps
378Wby 267gr w/GC 28 gr Unique 1831 fps
458WM 482gr w/GC 21 gr Unique 1320 fps; 47 gr IMR4227 1855 fps
460Wby 552gr w/GC 28gr Unique 1396 fps

At the time, nearly 50 years ago there wasn't much interest in "African" cartridges so listing in the book were limited to existing American and historically black powder cartridges. But loading would be similar to those cartridges sharing similar bore and case capacity measurements.

 

[JPmbogo]

I have tried this for 450/400NE in a Ruger No.1 and it worked great for me:

Reduced Recoil Loading Data for the .400-.416 Big Bores

Thanks for the link - very informative. I wonder if Nyati would be willing to share their load date for some other large calibers they load for?

 

[1r4rc]

See other post on pistol bullets for 470 NE. TB and cast bullets work well.

 

[1r4rc]

That's... Handgun bullets in a 470 NE

 

[Philip Glass]

I had reduced recoil loads made by Safari Arms for my .470.

 

[Chuck Kazen]

For reduced, fun to shoot loads for my 458 Lott, I use 23 grains of Unique behind a 500 grain hard cast bullet with a gas check. I haven't crono'd this load but should it be going about 1500 ft / sec. It kind of duplicates the old .45 cal. buffalo guns. I can shoot this all day out of my Ruger no1. Also load the same bullet ahead of 70 grains of 3031 for about 2100 ft. / sec. This one gets your attention. As an aside, I cast my bullets out of chilled shot and drop them into water from the mold. I haven't had any leading problems.

 

[JPmbogo]

For reduced, fun to shoot loads for my 458 Lott, I use 23 grains of Unique behind a 500 grain hard cast bullet with a gas check. I haven't crono'd this load but should it be going about 1500 ft / sec. It kind of duplicates the old .45 cal. buffalo guns. I can shoot this all day out of my Ruger no1. Also load the same bullet ahead of 70 grains of 3031 for about 2100 ft. / sec. This one gets your attention. As an aside, I cast my bullets out of chilled shot and drop them into water from the mold. I haven't had any leading problems.

Any particular reason why you choose those powders over 5744?

 

[Chuck Kazen]

Any particular reason why you choose those powders over 5744?

No particular reason, I've been handloading for 40 years so my first (and best) reloading manual is Lyman's 45th edition which has almost as many cast bullet rifle loads as jacketed bullet loads. In some calibers, 45-70 and 458 Winchester, it actually has more lead bullet loadings. That said, on the lighter side the old Lyman book starts with Unique and 2400 and works up to the heavy loads using 3031. Also, I use Unique for a lot of my handgun loads as well as 12 ga. shotgun so I always seem to have some around. I'm not an expert at this and am still doing load development for accuracy.
What I've discovered so far is by using chilled shot vs scrap range lead is that I get harder bullets that don't lead the bores of my 458 Lott or my 30-06 even when driven to 2300-2400 ft. /sec. I do use gas checks on both calibers and lube them with a 2:1 bees wax to Vaseline mixture.

 

[Ray B]

I cast my bullets out of chilled shot and drop them into water from the mold.

For safety reasons I keep all water well away from the molten lead. What do you do so that you don't have problems with water hitting the lead and splattering?

 

[GuttormG]

I drop from the mold an straight in water. I have a bucket of water placed on the floor and to the side, there is no way water can get up and in the pot.

 

[Chuck Kazen]

I do it the same way. My lead pot is up on a table and my bucket of water is down at my feet. No problems with water splash but I do hit once and a while with molten lead leaking from my old Lee pot. Just part of the fun.

 

[Ray B]

So the bucket is a three feet or so below the pot? The practice is you pour the lead from the pot into the mould then move the mould over the water, open it and let the bullet fall into the water? How far above the water do you have the mould when you open it? I'm not being a problem- merely getting the details straight so that I can start doing it without trial and error. thank you- I hadn't considered rapid cooling of the bullets.