Rifle conundrum

[Lumaberpat]

I am new to this thread and the idea of a safari. I have realized my current deer rifle, which seems to be the recommended plains game rifle will not pass through customs in many African countries. It is a Rossi 92 in 44 mag, it has open sights and works great out to 100 yards, I don’t hunt bean fields so the setup has worked well for me.

My conundrum is this, with the dream of a buffalo hunt in mind, but 10+ years away. Should I push myself right into a dangerous game rifle (9.3 or 375) and use it for deer and the larger North American game, or should I go with a more typical caliber (7mm or 308 etc) and buy a dangerous game rifle closer to the hunt, or possibly rent a rifle.

I grew up shooting deer with slugs in single shot shotguns so I’m not scared of recoil, but $100 for 20 rounds would be painful!

Thank you in advance for your advice!

Viva Christo Rey
Pat

 

[USMA84DAB]

You need both.

The 7mm-08/.308/.30-06 bolt gun will be good for training and cheaper for training. You need the .375 to go DG hunting. I would opt for .30-06 - the game in Africa seems tougher by 3 than the game in the States.

If you are clever, seek out a .30 rifle that is identical to the .375 you will buy - this means you will truly be training for the use of the DG rifle every time you use the .30 caliber rifle. Having the same manual of arms (safety in the same place and operates the same way, bolt throw identical, etc.) will be very good for you and help eliminate possible FUBAR moments that get you and your PH killed.

That kind of begs the issue then that you get a Mauser/controled round feed, as that is the only way I would go DG hunting. Sure, you can count on the PH to protect you and you can shoot/use a push feed in your rifle, but why not just man up and get a rifle system that makes you as safe/good as you can?

I have only been to RSA x1. I look at things from a Soldier's point of view - Murphy is always waiting to kick the shoot out of you. YMMV.

 

[CBH Australia]

You could hire a rifle for your first Plains Game hunt if import etc are going to be difficult. Hired a Sako with a Swarovski

But, being an Aussie I have long had a .308 for hunting and pest management. I have others including 7mm-08 that I feel is a great cartridge/chambering.

It won’t hurt the have a .308 and a .37H&H for yourself but that’s my pick and it might not suit you for now.

Good luck on your journey,

 

[Doug Hamilton]

You need both.

The 7mm-08/.308/.30-06 bolt gun will be good for training and cheaper for training. You need the .375 to go DG hunting. I would opt for .30-06 - the game in Africa seems tougher by 3 than the game in the States.

If you are clever, seek out a .30 rifle that is identical to the .375 you will buy - this means you will truly be training for the use of the DG rifle every time you use the .30 caliber rifle. Having the same manual of arms (safety in the same place and operates the same way, bolt throw identical, etc.) will be very good for you and help eliminate possible FUBAR moments that get you and your PH killed.

That kind of begs the issue then that you get a Mauser/controled round feed, as that is the only way I would go DG hunting. Sure, you can count on the PH to protect you and you can shoot/use a push feed in your rifle, but why not just man up and get a rifle system that makes you as safe/good as you can?

I have only been to RSA x1. I look at things from a Soldier's point of view - Murphy is always waiting to kick the shoot out of you. YMMV.

I think if so had it to do over again, I would buy a Winchester M70 in .300 Win Mag. Controlled Round Feed (CRF). Good for anything in North America, and most things in Africa. Later, you can buy a M70 in .375 or .458 for Africa. You'll already be really familiar with the fire control and handling.

 

[Sabre]

I would get the "typical rifle" caliber as you called it for now. Get a 308 or 30-06 and enjoy it for North America hunting and it would also be good for plains game. Then when you want to go on the dangerous game hunt, that you mentioned would take 10+ years, then you can either look into buying a dangerous game rifle or renting one.

I disagree with one of the other commenter that said you should "just man up" and get the dangerous game rifle that is the style he recommends etc etc. Because you can also just rent the gun from the outfitter and use it for those few days.

 

[Firebird]

How many times in your life are you going to use a dg rifle? So maybe use that money on your eventual safari and just rent one from your ph.
I’m all in on a new rifle-something you can use in your state and others. Then take it to Africa and use it on all the plains game. But a rifle that is a safe queen seems like a poor investment to me. Whereas a common deer hunting caliber such as something in a .308 or .284 caliber will serve you well the rest of your life.

 

[mark-hunter]

My conundrum is this, with the dream of a buffalo hunt in mind, but 10+ years away. Should I push myself right into a dangerous game rifle (9.3 or 375) and use it for deer and the larger North American game, or should I go with a more typical caliber (7mm or 308 etc) and buy a dangerous game rifle closer to the hunt, or possibly rent a rifle.

Decide what do you want to hunt.
Also, decide would you hunt multiple times in Africa, or only once? Basically, this is hard question. Many hunters go to hunt Africa, "once", and after that they catch African bug, and keep returning.
So, I guess this question is a bit hard.
Is dangerous game in plan?

I would say, for one time African visitor, a deer rifle of 30-06 with premium ammunition is appropriate for plains game hunt. Usal plains game safari for 5 to 7 animals, from springbok to kudu, for example

Distances can stretch up to 300 meters, and maybe 300 win mag would be more appropriate.
300 win mag will find good use later on the home ground hunts as well.

Once this is established, a step up would be following the next considerations of your choices, 9.3 or 375? Dangerous game?
9.3 is medium action caliber, and easily found in modern rifles especially of European production. The draw back is, it is not everywhere legal in Africa to be used for dangerous game.
This rifle will be easier to obtain, but will not be usable for DG everywhere.

375 H&H, is actually magnum lenght caliber, and will be harder to find in modern production factory rifle.
On the other hand, 375 (and its shorter twins) are legally accepted in majority of African countries as dangerous game legal hunting minimum.
So this rifle will be harder to find, but will be able to be be used everywhere for all types of game.

If using a bit lighter bullets, 270 grains, 250 grains you can use them for north American game, and African plains game. With bullets 300 or 350 grain use them for dangerous game.

Anyway I look at it, 375 H&H (or other 375 twins) is the answer for all types of hunting globally. Everything smaller then that, is a bit short here and there in some occasions.
Now you have to decide your needs.

Luckily, we are not limited to own one gun only. You can go also step by step, first 300 win mag, then 9.3, then 375. It will be nice collection.

If you buy 375 now, you will have time and get a chance to train with the rifle, and get ready for your DG hunt when the time comes.

 

[sgt_zim]

If you go with the DG rifle, I cannot encourage in strong enough terms that you will almost certainly need to spend some money on making it fit you.

The recoil from even a poorly fitting 9.3x62 or 375H&H can get ugly, to say nothing of any of the 40 caliber rifles.

As others have said, a 30-06 is about where you want to be. With an appropriate zero, a 30-06 is nearly as "flat shooting" inside 300 yards as a 300 Win Mag. Where the 300 Win Mag is head and shoulders better than 30-06 is out past 300 yards, or firing 200 gr or heavier bullets. A 180 gr pill fired from a 30-06 is sufficient for all plains game, but maybe a little light for eland (though you'll find no shortage of people here who've killed eland with a 30-06 or one of the various 7mm cartridges).

Hunting the Limpopo province of South Africa is probably the most economic of all options, in terms of the hunt as well as logistics. United (though I hate them) has a direct from Newark to Johannesburg, you'll spend a night or 2 at a place like https://africasky.co.za/ in Jo'burg, your outfitter will pick you up there, and you'll be on your way with a 3 - 5 hour drive in front of you and will likely hunt the very afternoon of your arrival in camp.

In Limpopo, opportunities to shoot past 150 or 200 yards are practically non-existent. Four of my six animals were shot between 30 and 80 yards. At those distances, a 30-06 is plenty for kudu, gemsbok, wildebeest, and zebra.

If you plan on rolling your own ammo, a 9.3x62 is good medicine for anything that'll fit your budget, including cape buffalo. I shot mine from about 30 or 35 yards, and she went down with 1 shot. If you just want to buy your ammo off the shelf, go with a 375H&H. Most of the countries that require 375 as minimum are a good bit more expensive than Limpopo.

Don't wait 10 years. You can often find deals here on AH for cull/management hunts for $5000 or less. The nice thing about cull/management hunting is you won't even be tempted to pay for any taxidermy, and you'll probably get to do a lot more shooting than if you were trophy hunting. When you're a year or two out from your hunt, come talk to us about ammo selection. No point in even bringing that up now since you still need to get a rifle and a good scope. First things first.

If you can just squirrel away $200/month, you'll be ready for your first hunt in 4 or 5 years, not 10.

 

[Rule 303]

Sgt Zim brings up some good points. I am not a fan of hiring a rifle as it will most likely not fit you. Also you need to practice with the calibre you are going to be using over there. The 375H&H, Rugger are sufficiently flat enough shooting to use on plains game out to at least 300mts. I use my 416 Rigby on animals from feral cats to camels, mainly pigs. The same with my 375H&H and 358RUM.

I am a 375H&H fan, however a Ruger in 375Ruger is normally a bit shorter and maybe a bit more comfortable to a person using a Lever Rifle???

 

[R eight]

Buy an R8 now with a 30/06 barrel and use it for your everyday hunting. About 2 years out from your safari buy a 375 H&H barrel for the outfit. Shoot it as often as you can.

Take both barrels on the safari. The world is yours

 

[Lumaberpat]

So, I guess this question is a bit hard.
Is dangerous game in plan?

I would say, for one time African visitor, a deer rifle of 30-06 with premium ammunition is appropriate for plains game hunt.

If I went to Africa I would want to hunt a Cape buffalo, I’d it normal to go on a first African hunt and not shoot plains game? Or is the plains game the get used to travel and how it all works before stepping up to the big stuff?

It definitely seems like the general consensus is to get a good plains game/north america hunting rifle and use it as a stepping stone. I’m alright with this, and it’s logical. With a rental rifle however I wouldn’t be used to using it/recoil/scope/fit. Doesn’t seem like the best time and place for “get what you get and don’t throw a fit!”

Thank you everyone, this is really a nice forum! Incredibly quick and thought out responses!

 

[BeeMaa]

@Lumaberpat - My suggestion is going to be a big step for the uninitiated. I’m an unabashed proponent of the Blaser R8 platform for a number of reasons. One of the biggest is having the same rifle fit regardless of caliber. Buying a 300WM Blaser R8 will set you up nicely for a 375H&H in the future while still allowing you to practice with a more NA friendly cartridge.

Feel free to send me a DM if you want to discuss it further or have any questions.

Thank you to @R eight for suggesting this a couple of posts earlier.

 

[sgt_zim]

Sgt Zim brings up some good points. I am not a fan of hiring a rifle as it will most likely not fit you. Also you need to practice with the calibre you are going to be using over there. The 375H&H, Rugger are sufficiently flat enough shooting to use on plains game out to at least 300mts. I use my 416 Rigby on animals from feral cats to camels, mainly pigs. The same with my 375H&H and 358RUM.

I am a 375H&H fan, however a Ruger in 375Ruger is normally a bit shorter and maybe a bit more comfortable to a person using a Lever Rifle???

Big fan of what Ruger did with their 375 cartridge, a bit less of a fan of their actual rifles. IMO, 8# is too light for that caliber. Easy enough to fix, but it needs fixing. A scope would get you close to 9#, but another 16oz needs to go on top of that.

Kevin Robertson goes into good detail in one of John McAdams' podcasts about another issue with a rifle that light. The recoil is heavy enough it actually can deform the brass in the magazine. Without a good crimp, you'd get setback. With a good crimp, the shoulder can get deformed under the right circumstance

 

[PerH]

And also do some other hunts and match or practice shoots with the dg also . I did some runking moose range trips with hard cast and .404 . Also some field target also i did . Would do the same with .375 also .

 

[Lumaberpat]

@Lumaberpat - My suggestion is going to be a big step for the uninitiated. I’m an unabashed proponent of the Blaser R8 platform for a number of reasons. One of the biggest is having the same rifle fit regardless of caliber. Buying a 300WM Blaser R8 will set you up nicely for a 375H&H in the future while still allowing you to practice with a more NA friendly cartridge.

Feel free to send me a DM if you want to discuss it further or have any questions.

Thank you to @R eight for suggesting this a couple of posts earlier.

The R8 really seems like the ideal, but if I had that kind of money I’d be on a plane to Africa already!

 

[Lumaberpat]

Don't wait 10 years. You can often find deals here on AH for cull/management hunts for $5000 or less. The nice thing about cull/management hunting is you won't even be tempted to pay for any taxidermy

On a cull hunt are you allowed to take home your derpy looking trophy’s? My wife wants to decorate a Cape buffalo mount for Christmas time, and the leather should be the same quality (I assume)!

 

[BeeMaa]

The R8 really seems like the ideal, but if I had that kind of money I’d be on a plane to Africa already!

When you look at the combined cost of buying separate rifles and making one of them DG ready, the R8 will make more sense. Whichever way you decide, you will get what you pay for.

I’ve never given one thought to the cost of a piece of kit as I’m making a final stalk or taking the shot. High quality items put my mind at ease so I can concentrate on the task at hand without thoughts of my equipment not being equal to the task.

Buy once, cry once.

 

[Lumaberpat]

Big fan of what Ruger did with their 375 cartridge, a bit less of a fan of their actual rifles. IMO, 8# is too light for that caliber. Easy enough to fix, but it needs fixing. A scope would get you close to 9#, but another 16oz needs to go on top of that.

Kevin Robertson goes into good detail in one of John McAdams' podcasts about another issue with a rifle that light. The recoil is heavy enough it actually can deform the brass in the magazine. Without a good crimp, you'd get setback. With a good crimp, the shoulder can get deformed under the right circumstance

Crimp jump is definitely real, I never thought it’d be talked about with rifles! I will stop looking at the Mossberg, that’s 3 big strikes against it. (Push feed, plastic mags, crimp jump possibilities)

 

[Bush Buck]

I recommend a Winchester Model 70 or a Ruger Hawkeye in 30-06 (or 308 if you prefer).
Start using this as your deer rifle and shooting it at the range from various shooting positions including sticks.
Learn to run your bolt fully - hitting the backstop firmly when you eject. If you routinely run the bolt fully to the rear, then switching from 30-06 to 375 H&H will be pretty smooth.
Pick up a Win 70 in 375 H&H a year or two before the trip and practice with it.

Bush Buck

 

[cajunchefray]

@Lumaberpat, you have come to the right place. AH is one of the most valuable resources on the web. Many fine gentlemen, and ladies that share their vast experiences and opinions. Several are excellent enablers to help you spend your money on rifles, scopes, etc.

Let me see if I can help you spend some money.

Firstly, I am still in the planning stages for my first African safari, which will include PG and buffalo. I have been accumulating rifles for over 40 years. I have a few opinions on choices, as well as reading everything I can here, and other sources to hopefully make a few informed choices. The veteran Africa hunters here will be able to give you valuable real-world experience.

Regarding rifle choices, are you willing to take up reloading?

This can make a big difference in choices. I took up reloading over 20 years ago, when I bought my first (of many) .375 H&H. Cost savings was an important factor, as well I always wanted to, and reloading will help you become more familiar and confident as a rifleman. I reload for .30-06, 7x57, .35 Whelen, and currently .458 Win Mag.

If you will reload, I would get a Winchester Model 70, 375 H&H and learn to load with lighter (250/260 grains) bullets, at moderate velocities (2500-2600 fps) and use it for all stateside hunting. No bloodshot meat at these velocities, less tracking, and moderate recoil. A .300 WIn Mag, at close range with a 165 grain bullet definitely makes more of a mess. When the country boys in camp ask "What you gonna shoot with that thing?" the simple answer is:
"Pretty much anything I want." You won't be overgunned and being very familiar with that one rifle builds confidence.
Shouldering, scope alignment, sight picture, trigger, bolt throw length all become second nature. You create that muscle memory that is important in a tight spot, or the moment shooting that buffalo.

If reloading is not an option, then I would get a M70 in 30-06. Bolt throw is only slightly shorter than the eventual .375 H&H compared to a .308 which is definitely shorter. I have gone from a .308 to .375, and depending on the rifle, have short stroked the H&H. Build that muscle memory with the "standard length action, not the shorter .308.

With modern bullets, available in factory loads, the 30-06 will do all that is needed to hunt in the States, with the exception of big bears. Ammo is available worldwide. Lots of choices for bullet weight and types. Barnes TSX, Swift A-Frames, and others just work. Hell, Remington 180 grain CoreLokt round nose are still popular here for the thick woods,

Then step up to the .375 as you prepare for the buff hunt. Same platform and maker so the manual of arms is the same.

And spend good money on scopes. At least as much as you spend on your rifles. Buy once, cry once is very true in choice of optics. A cheap scope will eventually cause some problem, whether holding zero, consistent optical resolution, and then the cost of wasted ammo when you can't sight in.

Leupold, Swarovski, Trijicon are favored here by many. As my eyes really suck, I find it's a personal choice of what I can aim better with, depending on model, power range etc.

And get some shooting sticks and practice, practice with these.

Let us know how we can help you spend some more money!