Savage's Floating Bolt Head

[CoElkHunter]

I was reading some articles last night about the proprietary floating bolt head designed by Savage in 1958. I had bought a Savage 110 (my first Savage) about eight months ago in .25-06 and recently a 110 in .308. I knew about the floating bolt head, but thought it was just for changing from a standard bolt head to a magnum bolt head. Then I read, where a spring in the bolt head allows the bolt head to move slightly to fully engage the bolt face with the action so no off centered contact and thus increased accuracy? I thought amazing! No expensive gunsmithing involved to true the bolt face or action. Why haven't other rifle brands adopted this? Thoughts?

 

[Inline6]

It is a different way to skin a cat.

Name the bolt gun and someone has shot better than 1/2 MOA with said brand. Ammo is better now than it has ever been which make these groups easier to obtain.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I was reading some articles last night about the proprietary floating bolt head designed by Savage in 1958. I had bought a Savage 110 (my first Savage) about eight months ago in .25-06 and recently a 110 in .308. I knew about the floating bolt head, but thought it was just for changing from a standard bolt head to a magnum bolt head. Then I read, where a spring in the bolt head allows the bolt head to move slightly to fully engage the bolt face with the action so no off centered contact and thus increased accuracy? I thought amazing! No expensive gunsmithing involved to true the bolt face or action. Why haven't other rifle brands adopted this? Thoughts?

@CoElkHunter
The floating bolt head was done to reduce the cost of machining the completeness bolt. The bolt is modulator an can be used in any rifle. Just attach the desired size bolt head even if the short actions. This cut cost dramatically.
The plus side along with the barrel attachment with the brewer nut mad assembly quicker and cheaper. With the floating bolt head it allows the lugs to self centre and bear evenly as you said which improves accuracy plus no expensive lug lapping to achieve the same results.
Headspace is also able to be held at absolute minimum with the above barrel attachment.
All this allows an accurate rifle at a reasonable price. Throw in a button rifled barrel and you have the complete package. I have never shot a Savage that doesn't shoot well. Even the mates Stevens 200 (cheaper Savage)in 223 groups half inch or less with handloads.
Not to shabby for a 300 dollar rifle.
Bob

 

[Flewis]

I was reading some articles last night about the proprietary floating bolt head designed by Savage in 1958. I had bought a Savage 110 (my first Savage) about eight months ago in .25-06 and recently a 110 in .308. I knew about the floating bolt head, but thought it was just for changing from a standard bolt head to a magnum bolt head. Then I read, where a spring in the bolt head allows the bolt head to move slightly to fully engage the bolt face with the action so no off centered contact and thus increased accuracy? I thought amazing! No expensive gunsmithing involved to true the bolt face or action. Why haven't other rifle brands adopted this? Thoughts?

Some of the high dollar custom shops have gone to the floating bolt head for better accuracy.

 

[intj]

I shoot in a discipline where we make no compromises in our equipment. In this discipline, we shoot the most precision rifles made, bar none. The discipline is long range bench rest. While I see lots of BAT actions, some Kelly's, and on rare occasion a Defiance; none use a floating bolt head.

The good actions are all machined so true that everything lines up without the need for any kind of floating bolt head to improve alignment. A floating bolt head can move during bolt operation and cause lockup to be inconsistent. An important key to shooting small groups at long range--and short range too--is to have everything as smooth and consistent as possible.

I also don't like the idea of how that floating head could potentially mess with ignition by interfering with the firing pin. I am sure they fix that by increasing the tolerance, but loosening tolerance on a true precision rifle is the wrong way to go.

Last week I chambered a barrel for a Zermatt Origin. It has a floating bolt head. I was concerned about the squishy feeling the bolt has has when headspacing in the lathe. It's feels squishy because all the slop in the floating head part needs to be taken up before headspace can be set properly. The Zermatt seemed to be very well machined, with the only flaw being the floating bolt head.

Now countless Savage actions have been made that shoot well. But they simply aren't remotely in the same league as a precision custom action, and the floating bolt head isn't an accuracy enhancing feature, it's a compromise to reduce costs.

There are many such compromises made in building actions. Things like a round bottomed receiver, a sandwiched recoil lug, a bolt nose protrusion, or a magazine spacer; just to name a few. None of these are huge detriments, but they are done to lower costs, not make anything better.

 

[rdog]

@CoElkHunter
The floating bolt head was done to reduce the cost of machining the completeness bolt. The bolt is modulator an can be used in any rifle. Just attach the desired size bolt head even if the short actions. This cut cost dramatically.
The plus side along with the barrel attachment with the brewer nut mad assembly quicker and cheaper. With the floating bolt head it allows the lugs to self centre and bear evenly as you said which improves accuracy plus no expensive lug lapping to achieve the same results.
Headspace is also able to be held at absolute minimum with the above barrel attachment.
All this allows an accurate rifle at a reasonable price. Throw in a button rifled barrel and you have the complete package. I have never shot a Savage that doesn't shoot well. Even the mates Stevens 200 (cheaper Savage)in 223 groups half inch or less with handloads.
Not to shabby for a 300 dollar rifle.
Bob

The savage 110 is a very good rifle often critised by people that do not understand them, the head spacing system & floating bolt head is a great idea.

 

[intj]

The Savage 110 is a budget grade rifle that definitely fills a need. It shoots well for what it is. However, the floating bolt head is not an accuracy enhancing feature.

When the rifle fires, the case stretches from the shoulder to the bolt face. If it's a floating bolt head, there has to be clearance to allow it to float. This means upon firing, the case will push that floating bolt head back so as to take up all that clearance. So there is additional movement while the case is firing vs a fixed bolt head. Introducing additional movement during firing is not a good thing.

Again, the most accurate and precise rifles on the planet use fixed bolt heads.....

 

[rdog]

The Savage 110 is a budget grade rifle that definitely fills a need. It shoots well for what it is. However, the floating bolt head is not an accuracy enhancing feature.

When the rifle fires, the case stretches from the shoulder to the bolt face. If it's a floating bolt head, there has to be clearance to allow it to float. This means upon firing, the case will push that floating bolt head back so as to take up all that clearance. So there is additional movement while the case is firing vs a fixed bolt head. Introducing additional movement during firing is not a good thing.

Again, the most accurate and precise rifles on the planet use fixed bolt heads.....

Yes you are correct, but if you use the barrel nut head spacing system to compress the wave washer between bolt body & bolt head when setting up head space its not an issue ,just my opinion. I have a savage 110 action originally in 7.62x39 re barraled to 6mm ARC that shoots 5 shot groups about 5/8 m oa any day with a 3x 9 scope using Berger 88 grain Var VLDs it does not get much better than that out of a sporter weight rifle

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The Savage 110 is a budget grade rifle that definitely fills a need. It shoots well for what it is. However, the floating bolt head is not an accuracy enhancing feature.

When the rifle fires, the case stretches from the shoulder to the bolt face. If it's a floating bolt head, there has to be clearance to allow it to float. This means upon firing, the case will push that floating bolt head back so as to take up all that clearance. So there is additional movement while the case is firing vs a fixed bolt head. Introducing additional movement during firing is not a good thing.

Again, the most accurate and precise rifles on the planet use fixed bolt heads.....

@itnj
The floating bolt head and minimum headspace= good acute rifle as the bolt head bears evenly and the bolt head sets back an absolute minimum. Uneven lughead engagement that's common with fixed bolt head is the reason people get the lugs lapped to bear evenly to make them shoot as well as a Savage.
Bob

 

[Hunter4752001]

Some of the points raised are not correct. The lugs are integral to the bolt head and as such lock into (and bear against) the receiver the same as a conventional bolt.

 

[intj]

Again, the only advantage to a Savage is its cost. The barrel nut is okay, but not superior to a shouldered barrel. I have fit barrels to Savages, and to be honest I don't like how they headspace. Headspace isn't as precisely controlled as with a shouldered barrel.

I guess I didn't remember Savages having a floating bolt head, but other actions do and while it is an okay design, it's not the best. I have chambered barrels for floating bolt head rifles, and they are squishy when trying to be precise with headspace. And floating bolt head rifles have all the issues I mentioned before.

And if you don't think the many sub half MOA 10-shot groups I have shot at 1000 yds with my LRBR heavy gun are evidence of the superiority of a precision BAT action with a fixed bolt head and a shouldered barrel, then let me point out that the sporter weight hunting rifles we build routinely shoot sub 1/2 MOA at 650 yds. No floating bolt heads or Savage actions on any of them.

I am not saying Savages or barrel nuts or floating bolt heads--or bolt nose protrusions or magazine spacers or round bottomed actions--are bad, but these are not desirable features. They are simply are cost cutting compromises that work okay.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Quite a few years ago there was an article in one of the gun magazines (maybe the American Rifleman). They were doing the article on Savage rifles and their accuracy. If I remember correctly they attributed much of their accuracy to their barrels and one man who inspects the barrels.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Hi, @CoElkHunter

The Savage Model 110 actually used 2 different kinds of bolt heads (the pre-1966 and the post-1966).

The pre-1966 Savage Model 110 used a spring loaded extractor while the post-1966 savage Model 110 uses a typical push feed plunger extractor.

The rifle pictured above is an Anschutz Model 110 in .30-06 Springfield that was built as a collaboration between Savage and Anschutz between 1964-1970. This specific model has a ”167” date code indicating that it was made on January of 1967.

I believe that it uses a pre-1966 Savage Model 110 action since the extractor is the spring loaded kind as opposed to the typical push feed extractors found on modern Savage Model 110s.