Sensory Overload

[weaponmyster]

This is my second posting as a new member. I've decided to do an African safari bucket-list trip, perhaps as an excuse to buy a beautiful double rifle...something I've never owned but envy when I see them. Used or new. Thank you for this website.

My problem is the overload of options. I prefer to spend under $20k, so the number of brands (from my newbie reading) shakes down to a dozen or so. From experience with other finely engineered and constructed "stuff," I always think German products are most impressive, but in this price range for a big bore double is that true? There are a lot of favorable comments on Chapuis, and I've seen other foreign brands review favorable reviews. Never really considered the French to be great gunmakers. Wrong? Also, the Merkel seems to be viewed by some as weak for the .450 & up calibers. Why? I like the Merkel looks and pricing. And the Kreighoff cocking safety is controversial. So I am leaning toward Heym, but used Heym rifles are scarce, I guess for good reason. I also need 15+ LOP. I wish someone would just tell me what the best quality is that I can buy in .450-400 for $20k. Any comments will be appreciated.

 

[chashardy]

If your budget is $20k tops, then go with the Chapuis. They are hand made in France, and the family-owned company was purchased by Beretta a year or so ago, so they will be around for a long time. Beretta is keeping them as a stand alone subsidiary and will offer their rifles and shotguns at Beretta stores. For second hand doubles, check out champlinarms.com or williamlarkinmoore.com. Both usually have an inventory of doubles at good prices, though they both had booths at the Dallas Safari Club Convention in Dallas and may be a little low on inventory right now. Champlin is in Enid, Oklahoma and WLMoore is in Phoenix, and I bought my Chapuis from them online. Been to Africa with it 4 times and it's great to hunt with. Look on Champlin's website. They vouch for Chapuis as best value for the money.

 

[rinehart0050]

I would echo everything @chashardy said about Chapuis.

I have a lefty in 470NE. Took less thank 6 months from when I ordered to delivery- if you're right handed, there's a good chance Champlin Arms already has a double that will meet your needs.

Here's the write-up regarding my Chapuis:
Chapuis Brousse 470NE

 

[Inline6]

Ditto what is said by @chashardy and @rinehart0050

Champlain has had used Heym's for sale from time to time. George is a nice guy and will answer all the questions you have. You might not like what he says, you will have the truth. My feeling are with a purchase of that size, I want to get it right the first time. My .02

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Heym offers arguably the strongest action made and as an engineer that now owns one I can attest that it is perfect, the closest fitting of metal to metal that I have ever seen, even in London. And the wood fits perfectly too. Moving on to functionality, Heym has a three point lockup including the absolute Greener cross bolt. The triggers are perfect, break like a squeezed dove's egg, and have intercepting sears for safety. Finally, for your budget you can afford a brand new 89b, described as "a proper English double- made in Germany". To me this is the prettiest double I have seen, it has the form and proportion that, like the golden rectangle, is hugely pleasing. This is truly the pinnacle and the base model is mechanically the same as the top model, just less adornmant. I opted for the 450/400, the do everything double, and will be putting a Trijicon red dot on it soon.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Heyms are lovely, I prefer the looks of 88 over 89 myself but each to their own. I went with Krieghoff due to the safety/cocking option. I like the IES system of the K gun too. Very happy with mine. I hunted with outfitter’s Merkel in 470NE that has seen a fair bit of use and the gun worked just fine. Not sure where you heard the action is weak, I doubt weak action would pass CIP overpressure tests.

For a simple answer: traditional safety - I would choose Heym, cocking safety - I’d go with Krieghoff. Cocking safety is a great piece of mind. I would also consider a second, smaller calibre barrel set for the extra, everyday hunting.

My Krieghoff:

My first double rifle - I love it

So last week, after a year’s worth of waiting, my double rifle was finally ready for a pick up from the dealer. It all started one bloody hot day in Australia’s Northern Territory. I was on a buffalo hunt and in addition to using my Blaser R8 in 375H&H, the outfitter offered me to have a go...

www.africahunting.com

 

[zephyr]

There are many used English Double Rifles on the market that should be considered in your quest for a Double

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I agree with Kevin. Although I do not own a Heym double, my wife owns a 88b in .450-400 and a 89b .470 is in her future. Either one if cared for will give you lifetimes of service. The 88b can easily be purchased for under $15,000.00. The 89b will be very close to $20,000.00.

Lon

 

[zephyr]

The other thing you get in a good English Box Lock are intercepting Sears

 

[weaponmyster]

I thank all of you for your time and thoughts here. It looks like I will compare a Heym order ($20k) vs a Chapuis in stock ($13k), in 450/400 NE. I have patience but I also have the bug.

 

[discap]

I do not know of an English boxlock with intercepting sears. Francotte often has them but I cannot think of an English boxlock with them. Please educate me

thanks

Bill

 

[deewayne2003]

I agree with Kevin. Although I do not own a Heym double, my wife owns a 88b in .450-400 and a 89b .470 is in her future. Either one if cared for will give you lifetimes of service. The 88b can easily be purchased for under $15,000.00. The 89b will be very close to $20,000.00.

Lon

I stopped by the Heym booth at DSC this weekend and was quoted $25K for an 89B grade one in .470ne; showed pics of the wood I like and they said it would add another $1,500-$2,000.

I asked about a 450/400 and he said smaller action, so take $1,000ish off.

 

[Philip Glass]

This is my second posting as a new member. I've decided to do an African safari bucket-list trip, perhaps as an excuse to buy a beautiful double rifle...something I've never owned but envy when I see them. Used or new. Thank you for this website.

My problem is the overload of options. I prefer to spend under $20k, so the number of brands (from my newbie reading) shakes down to a dozen or so. From experience with other finely engineered and constructed "stuff," I always think German products are most impressive, but in this price range for a big bore double is that true? There are a lot of favorable comments on Chapuis, and I've seen other foreign brands review favorable reviews. Never really considered the French to be great gunmakers. Wrong? Also, the Merkel seems to be viewed by some as weak for the .450 & up calibers. Why? I like the Merkel looks and pricing. And the Kreighoff cocking safety is controversial. So I am leaning toward Heym, but used Heym rifles are scarce, I guess for good reason. I also need 15+ LOP. I wish someone would just tell me what the best quality is that I can buy in .450-400 for $20k. Any comments will be appreciated.

I was in your shoes a few years back shopping for my new double. The Kreighoff is a beautiful rifle and has features no one else has. I am unsure why the decocking safety is controversial except for the fact that most have not taken the time to become familiar with it. It is the same feature as the R8 in that it is not a safety but a decocker. Once you are familiar with it then it is second nature. I would rather be safe shoulder carrying a loaded double through the thick jess on a safari. I suppose most doubles dont actually go on safari though.
The Kgun also has an anti doubling feature built into it. When they have the annual DSC big bore shoot you always hear of all the doubling that goes on.
I will likely buy another double one day. For me the Kreighoff has been an excellent choice for my first working double. Mine was about $15k.
I agree with your choice of caliber and will be getting .450/400 barrels for mine soon.

 

[Fixfire]

Phillip, please elaborate, (if you’d like) on most doubles not going on Safari. As a Gun collector I always wanted a double but felt guilty buying/investing on one just for plinking since I’m completely satisfied with my M70 in .375hh for safari. It would ease my mind that many buy doubles as safe queens.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I thank all of you for your time and thoughts here. It looks like I will compare a Heym order ($20k) vs a Chapuis in stock ($13k), in 450/400 NE. I have patience but I also have the bug.

I have had exactly one DR, a Searcy. Some would criticize that choice, while others would praise it. All I know is it's accurate, the right barrel goes boom when I pull the front trigger and the left barrel goes boom when I pull the rear trigger. I'm the third owner I believe of the rifle and it went on it's first hunt this past October. And it went boom twice in short order as it was supposed too in taking my first buffalo.

I'm satisfied with my rifle, but it wasn't built for me. And there's a few things I'd like that it lacks such as studs for a sling and ejectors (vs extractors). So I'm strongly considering a Chapuis, which to my understanding will run you about 6 months if you order one. Other makes are taking longer.

Having said all of that, I'm no expert on doubles. I'll not try and direct you to one make or another. What I would suggest you do however is now that DSC is over, take a trip to Nashville to take in the SCI convention in February. Yes it'll cost you a bit, but you can take in all of these makes at the show. And when you're spending upwards of $20K I think you want to get what works best for you.

AH is a great place to get information and start your research, but it isn't finished until you've handled that rifle and are pleased with it in your hands, not someone else's.