Snap Caps

[8 x 60]

What are people's views on the use of snap caps in double rifles?

Does any one use them (two pairs) for practicing / rehearsing firing/reloading?

(Apologies if this has been covered before.)

 

[Red Leg]

I use them. But they need to be the high quality spring loaded ones that provide resistance to hammer and firing pin. Merkel no doubt advised against their use because the cheaper ones (or a fired shell) provides no such resistance.

 

[8 x 60]

I use them. But they need to be the high quality spring loaded ones that provide resistance to hammer and firing pin. Merkel no doubt advised against their use because the cheaper ones (or a fired shell) provides no such resistance.

I recently purchased some from Kynoch, they were pretty pricey but still don't feel comfortable pulling the trigger .

(I have a Merkel but it is over 90 yrs old and have no idea what they say about snap caps)

 

[Red Leg]

I recently purchased some from Kynoch, they were pretty pricey but still don't feel comfortable pulling the trigger .

(I have a Merkel but it is over 90 yrs old and have no idea what they say about snap caps)

Sorry. I confused you with another member who had said a double manufacturer advised him not to pull the triggers using any snap caps of any type.

If you don’t want to - fine - don’t. You asked my opinion. I would note that I own and regularly shoot a couple of dozen or more vintage double rifles and shotguns. Traditionally, owners used a block made of horn to “fire” their gun or rifle against before casing them in their oak and leather take down cases. Holland & Holland will provide one with your newly ordered bespoke Royal if you request one. The high quality spring loaded primer models work very well and I use them on all of my vintage guns and rifles. What is critical is not to fire them against no resistance.

 

[8 x 60]

Cheers Red-Leg. I appreciate your feed-back.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

I have some snap caps for a couple of my guns (not double rifles) and I just don't like them much. I don't think they're accurately sized (the .308 ones I have are definitely shorter than a live round) and they don't always want to cycle or chamber properly in some of my guns because of that (the 12-gauge ones I have are an exception). I'd rather use properly-sized dummy rounds with real casings (hot glue dab instead of a primer), painted bullets, and sand to simulate powder if I could. But that would be for cycling an action and practicing loading, not necessarily for making the hammer/pin fall on them. What @Red Leg said about having some actual resistance for the hammer/pin is a good point (and on that subject, would a thick dab of hot glue provide sufficient resistance?).

But like I said, my problems aren't with a double. I think you'd be fine with snap caps as long as they were of good quality and ensured good contact/resistance with the pin/hammer.

 

[Red Leg]

I have some snap caps for a couple of my guns (not double rifles) and I just don't like them much. I don't think they're accurately sized (the .308 ones I have are definitely shorter than a live round) and they don't always want to cycle or chamber properly in some of my guns because of that (the 12-gauge ones I have are an exception). I'd rather use properly-sized dummy rounds with real casings (hot glue dab instead of a primer), painted bullets, and sand to simulate powder if I could. But that would be for cycling an action and practicing loading, not necessarily for making the hammer/pin fall on them. What @Red Leg said about having some actual resistance for the hammer/pin is a good point (and on that subject, would a thick dab of hot glue provide sufficient resistance?).

But like I said, my problems aren't with a double. I think you'd be fine with snap caps as long as they were of good quality and ensured good contact/resistance with the pin/hammer.

So I do not use snap caps when dry firing a bolt action. I know of no design that will be harmed by such firing. And once I know a particular rifle cycles dependably there is no need to keep doing it. Resistance, however, is critical on most double rifles or shotguns. Otherwise, one will break a firing pin or bugger up a hammer or hammer spring. Putting a glob of hot glue on a primer between every dry fire might work - but damn. For a double get a nice set of spring loaded caps.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

So I do not use snap caps when dry firing a bolt action. I know of no design that will be harmed by such firing. And once I know a particular rifle cycles dependably there is no need to keep doing it. Resistance, however, is critical on most double rifles or shotguns. Otherwise, one will break a firing pin or bugger up a hammer or hammer spring. Putting a glob of hot glue on a primer between every dry fire might work - but damn. For a double get a nice set of spring loaded caps.

I only mention hot glue 'cause I've seen a fellow online who makes such dummy cartridges to order (but they are primarily for bolt guns and modern rifles/pistols, for instructional purposes or for theatre/film or reenactors/living history buffs who need the look of live ammo without the part what goes "bang"). But I meant a plug of the stuff to replace the primer entirely, slightly oversized to give it something to impact.

Not to hijack the thread, but what about lever-guns with an exposed hammer, or something like a Trapdoor Springfield? Snap caps/dummies for dry fire or mechanically safe without them?

 

[IvW]

Sorry. I confused you with another member who had said a double manufacturer advised him not to pull the triggers using any snap caps of any type.

If you don’t want to - fine - don’t. You asked my opinion. I would note that I own and regularly shoot a couple of dozen or more vintage double rifles and shotguns. Traditionally, owners used a block made of horn to “fire” their gun or rifle against before casing them in their oak and leather take down cases. Holland & Holland will provide one with your newly ordered bespoke Royal if you request one. The high quality spring loaded primer models work very well and I use them on all of my vintage guns and rifles. What is critical is not to fire them against no resistance.

What is the correct procedure when storing a double rifle in a "broken" state eg. barrels off of the action in the case?

 

[Red Leg]

What is the correct procedure when storing a double rifle in a "broken" state eg. barrels off of the action in the case?

The best way is to fire them against a block of wood or a block of horn after disassembly. This works well on Anson & Deeley boxlocks, trigger plate boxlocks, and typical sidelocks. There are a few designs - the LC Smith is notorious - that have to be in cocked condition to be reassembled. All that said, correctly hardened hammer springs are incredibly durable, and it is a rare one that will take a set by remaining cocked even for years at a time.

 

[IvW]

The best way is to fire them against a block of wood or a block of horn after disassembly. This works well on Anson & Deeley boxlocks, trigger plate boxlocks, and typical sidelocks. There are a few designs - the LC Smith is notorious - that have to be in cocked condition to be reassembled. All that said, correctly hardened hammer springs are incredibly durable, and it is a rare one that will take a set by remaining cocked even for years at a time.

Thanks. Is it not a issue when re assembling to close the action with exposed firing pins? I may recall myself having such an issue on a shot gun.

 

[Tanks]

Sorry. I confused you with another member who had said a double manufacturer advised him not to pull the triggers using any snap caps of any type.
...

That was me and Heym. So, are the ones sold by Kynoch high quality enough? And if not, whose do you recommend?

 

[8 x 60]

The Kynoch ones were about £55 a pair. (8 x 60r) They are well made, steel and brass construction with some sort of very hard rubber type substance as a "Primer". Hard to say whether there is a spring inside as they are won't dismantle.

They have FN on the head-stamp so presumably made by FN?

 

[IvW]

The ones I use have a plastic "primer" which is spring loaded, as opposed to the ones which are just plastic and fixed. You can also make then yourself...

 

[IvW]

The Kynoch ones were about £55 a pair. (8 x 60r) They are well made, steel and brass construction with some sort very hard rubber type substance as a "Primer". Hard to say whether there is a spring inside as they are won't dismantle.

They have FN on the head-stamp so presumably made by FN?

I would stay away from ones that are steel as the case this is a rust hazard inside the chamber....that part needs to be brass.

 

[deewayne2003]

@ Redleg ..... Your opinion on the A-Zoom snap caps?
https://ochocos.com/a-zoom-action-proving-dummy-round-snap-cap-470-nitro-express-aluminum-11405

They came with my gun and honestly I have not been able to find any others in stock.

 

[Red Leg]

@ Redleg ..... Your opinion on the A-Zoom snap caps?
https://ochocos.com/a-zoom-action-proving-dummy-round-snap-cap-470-nitro-express-aluminum-11405

They came with my gun and honestly I have not been able to find any others in stock.

I do not know that brand. I bought the ones for my .470 in London at William Evans. They have a spring loaded primer. I have two sets of 9.3x74R's, both of which came out of Germany. One set is unmarked, and the other is marked Frankonia Jagd which is a large hunting store chain in Germany. Both have spring loaded primers. Solid plastic would work for a while, but eventually the firing pins will put a permanent dent so the pins are essentially hitting nothing (the issue with using a fired shell). Of course, this is not an issue with my Blaser S2 or with a K-Gun.

@IvW makes a good point. They tend to stay in the chamber because they are a safe way to release the hammer spring to put the gun back in the rack. Make sure they are plated or a non ferrous material and lubed.

 

[crs]

Azoom is widely used in the USA and I have them for a couple of my break action guns.
Good guns often come with proper snap caps; for instance, my Parkers came with chrome plated snap caps that have adjustable spring loaded primers. Those type snap caps are available at some outfitters.

My .405 DR did not come with snap caps, so I bought a set from Azoom and they turned out to be the correct diameter only for the forward half of the device. So, I used a jury rigged lathe and sanded them down to size.
They were still too long for the two cylindrical tube/sockets intended for their storage, so I cut them to a shorter length that fit. They work fine and fit in the take down case.

The standard Azoom .45-70 snap caps work great in all my .45-70, . 45-90, and 45-70 DR.

 

[Longwalker]

I use spring loaded snap caps the I purchased by mail-order from the USA, at new England Custom Gun. They can supply good quality aluminum snap caps with a hard plastic "primer" insert that is mounted in a spring loaded plunger. I have confidence that they provide proper resistance against the firing pin fall on my .450-400, 9.3x74R and 7x57R rifles. I will not use A-Zoom snap caps ( they break) or any of the cheap ones with fixed rubber primer inserts. The rubber soon takes on a permanent dent and becomes ineffective. A tough plastic insert is important, and it must be mounted in a spring loaded sleeve or plunger.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I would not think of pulling the trigger on one of my doubles without a quality snap cap. When my wife was practicing for her PH shooting, she practiced with dummy rounds, we tried the plastic dummy rounds they were not satisfactory. She ended up using hand assembled using a bit of sand instead of powder, melted lead in place of the primer with bullets painted black to identify practice rds. After the testing was over they were disposed of so that there would be no chance of them mixed with hunting rounds.