Steel vs Tungsten

[Willard427]

I have a question which has probably been discussed previously.
When shooting steel shot for waterfowl,
it is recommended to use a more open choke do to the steel shot damaging your choke tube or barrel. But when shooting Tungsten, which is harder than steel, it is recommended to go with tight chokes. For example, with TSS a XX full choke is preferred for best patterns in turkey hunting.
Can someone explain why ??
Thank you.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If you have a choke/barrel that can actually handle steel shot, the pattern is usually one choke value compressed, e.g. lead modified choke = full pattern shooting steel. Too tight a pattern is seldom desirable when wingshooting. In the old days maybe it was somewhat more desirable because denser lead was more effective at greater distance. Tighter pattern gives greater distance. But steel is less dense and less effective at those distances. So shots need to be closer. Closer = wider pattern is more effective. A modified choke pattern with steel at forty yards is about the same as full pattern with lead at sixty yards.

Turkey hunting is a whole different ballgame. It is target shooting at a standing turkey's head, often at some distance. The tightest pattern possible is most desirable. Why turkey hunters are so adverse to shooting birds in the body has always been a mystery to me. We who hunt waterfowl do it all the time.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Turkeys are usually shot in the head while standing on the ground, thus a tight choke is "better". All other birds are (or should be) shot on the wing where a open choke is much more effective. Tungsten is deadly in either case.

 

[AHT081]

No doubt tungsten and the other heavy non toxics are superior to steel. At the same time if you bring 'em into 25-30 yards steel will kill 'em all day long for 1/2 the price. IMO for birds like snow geese, that are hard to decoy to that range, they would be worth it.

 

[BeeMaa]

Start with a baseline or you are just guessing. You need to pattern your shotgun with the choke and load you will be using at the distances you expect to be hunting.

I've done extensive pattern testing with lead, steel, HEVI-SHOT, Bismuth, TSS, TSS-blends (mixed material in the same pellet) and TSS-steel (two kinds of shot in the same shell). This testing has been mostly focused on my Benelli SBE2 (which I sold) & SBE3.

I've had chokes from Patternmaster, Kicks, Trulock, Carlson's, Briley and Müller. What I have found is that almost every choke that comes from the factory does not measure accurately to what they are supposed to. This has also been the case with a couple of aftermarket companies. By far the most consistent with respect to measurements are Carlson's, Müller and Briley. The best patterns have come from Müller when comparing the same chokes to each other, but Carlson's will get you 95% of the results for about 50% less money. Carlson's also has a larger selection than Müller so availability is sometimes an issue.

Ported vs non-ported. In EVERY SINGLE CASE a ported choke has patterned larger than non-ported in the same constriction. This could be good or bad, it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Again, to the pattern board.

Steel vs blend vs TSS. IMO - steel sucks, blends are better and TSS is the way to go. I've routinely seen guys have to shoot the same goose 3 times with steel shot and still have to wring the neck. So who is really saving money? With TSS, most of the time I'm one and done. Everyone sportsman has injured birds that get away, but using TSS has reduced this number significantly for me. Most recently had a flock of 8-10 fly over me and I dropped three with three shots. All fell stone dead from the sky at 40 yards.

For nearly everything (including sporting clays), I've gone to shooting a Carlson's Federal Black Cloud Long Range FULL choke in the SBE3. For waterfowl I use Federal Black Cloud TSS BB/7 shot for goose and ducks. I have head shot kills on Canada goose out to 70 yards confirmed with a laser range finder. For turkey I use a Carlson's Turkey Choke rated for TSS with Federal TSS 2 1/4 oz 7 shot. This is my pattern at 60 yards.

 

[BeeMaa]

Take a look at this thread...

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/tss-ammo-is-it-worth-it.66788/

 

[PCC600]

I

If you have a choke/barrel that can actually handle steel shot, the pattern is usually one choke value compressed, e.g. lead modified choke = full pattern shooting steel. Too tight a pattern is seldom desirable when wingshooting. In the old days maybe it was somewhat more desirable because denser lead was more effective at greater distance. Tighter pattern gives greater distance. But steel is less dense and less effective at those distances. So shots need to be closer. Closer = wider pattern is more effective. A modified choke pattern with steel at forty yards is about the same as full pattern with lead at sixty yards.

Turkey hunting is a whole different ballgame. It is target shooting at a standing turkey's head, often at some distance. The tightest pattern possible is most desirable. Why turkey hunters are so adverse to shooting birds in the body has always been a mystery to me. We who hunt waterfowl do it all the time.

I also understand that due to the lower specific gravity of steel vs lead heavier shot needs to be used to get necessary momentum . This then requires a heavier cartridge and causes more recoil . I recently had my old Browning(1958) o/u converted from full / full to interchangeable Briley chokes . Currently shooting quarter and half choke and works well with lead and steel . Also had the forcing cones opened up a little . Lower felt recoil. Shoots like a dream on driven pheasant .

 

[BeeMaa]

I

I also understand that due to the lower specific gravity of steel vs lead heavier shot needs to be used to get necessary momentum . This then requires a heavier cartridge and causes more recoil . I recently had my old Browning(1958) o/u converted from full / full to interchangeable Briley chokes . Currently shooting quarter and half choke and works well with lead and steel . Also had the forcing cones opened up a little . Lower felt recoil. Shoots like a dream on driven pheasant .

I understand specific gravity but most of the discussions I've been a part of use density when talking about shotgun pellets.

The making of lead (density of 11 g/cc) illegal for waterfowl combined with the lower density of steel (8 g/cc) necessitated that the pellet size go up (typically two sizes) to account for the difference and get the energy at impact up to where it needs to be. This took what was lead 2 shot and made it steel BB or BBB. So now the pellets are bigger, so less pellets fit in the (at the time) 3" magnum shell. This was a problem.

Solution...make the shell 1/2" longer so now you can have the same (or close to) the same payload as when using steel. Several companies started making ammo and shotguns in 3.5" (the new magnum) for this very reason.

The real problem is that the larger the shot, the more they spread out. Plus you reduce the pellet count if you keep the weight the same. Which reduces the chances of a lethal hit. This was a problem.

Solution...TSS which has a density of 18 g/cc so now the pellets can get smaller...even smaller than when lead pellets were legal. This means you can fit more pellets in a shell, have better patterns, shoot farther with more lethality and harvest more birds. Another plus is that most of the TSS pellets have so much energy at the time of impact that they pass right though the bird...no biting into pellets.

Of course you can not have your cake and eat it too. The downside is price of course. The Federal Black Cloud TSS BB/7 (mix of TSS pellets and Flight Control Steel) I've been using goes for about $400/100 shells, so $4 every time you pull the trigger. Yes, high volume days could be expensive but you will get what you pay for.

FYI - HEVI-SHOT density can vary from 8 to 12 g/cc so make sure you know what you are getting. It's not all the same. Bismuth is about 9.6 g/cc.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I guess I don't need to gut geese so badly that I'll pay four bucks a shell to shoot them. If I'm patient I can usually get a triple with 3" steel BB about one out of three ventures afield (true triples, not flock shooting). At least once a year I'll take home a bag limit of five honkers in as many shots. And no, I'm not shooting them point blank laying in a coffin blind in the middle of the decoys. I will typically set the decoys fifty to sixty yards from my cover on the edge of the field. Any closer and the geese won't look at them. Using the wind I can usually be set up for pass shots. The key to shooting triples and batting a thousand is not shooting tungsten. It's being patient ... and hunting alone.

Couldn't get the deeks staked before the geese were trying to land in them. Fortunately it was a windless day (or decoys would blow over). Even with no wind advantage I still shot a limit including a triple.