The Archer's Paradox: Steven Rinella Podcast on arrow builds and physical performance

[firehuntfish]

Here's a link to a recent Steven Rinella Podcast titled the Archer's Paradox. It features some great discussion in regard to arrow builds, and the physics as they relate their field performances. Among others, Dr. Ed Ashby is interviewed starting at the 8:35 mark. In addition to reinforcing some of his traditional contentions, Dr. Ashby discusses some of the newest observations he has discovered through field testing using the latest technology. It's a lengthy, detailed discussion, but very informative for those who are interested in the analysis of many of the long-standing advertised industry beliefs versus the actual practical performance determined through the newest research. This is an excellent listen for those who are truly interested in improving their arrow penetration resulting more efficient bow kills.

Ep. 284: The Archer's Paradox | MeatEater Podcasts

Steven Rinella talks with Dr. Ed Ashby, Garrett Schlief, Todd Smith, Corinne Schneider, and Janis Putelis. Topics discussed: a doctorate in eyeballs; how young bull rhinos will not breed as long as old bulls are holding territory; hunting and eating anything that moved in East Texas; shooting...

www.themeateater.com

 

[BSO Dave]

Thanks for posting this Dan.. It's a long interview, but extremely informative. Dr. Ashby has introduced some new revelations since his early findings that I as not aware of.. Namely the effectiveness of even higher FOC's than originally recommended.. It's amazing to me that so many bow hunters still disregard arrow penetration for speed.

 

[rookhawk]

In one corner we have the American’s who love speed and use the fallacy “my setup works great on deer, therefore I’ll extrapolate it to everything else”. In the other corner, the laws of physics.

If you want to see the most embarrassing examples of Americans hunting with bows ever recorded, take a look at the videos of African bow hunts by Driess Visser safaris. The videos are actually quite good as far as where the shots should be placed. Driess appears to run a good African bowhunting operation as well.

But the American clientele are an embarassment. These huge guys with these huge bows shooting animals at 20 yards, over, and over, and over again they cannot get a pass through shot.

Powerful bows + light arrows + launch at high speed + mechanicals / non-cut on contact = stupid end results.

I kid you not, my ten year old drawing 37-40lbs at 22.5” draw length gets more consistent pass through than the 70lb-80lb bow crowd with “speed bows” hunting these days.

It’s a pet peeve of mine. 99% of archery shops support the fallacies. Laws of physics disagree with the marketing campaigns of the modern American archery product Manufacturer.

 

[BSO Dave]

In one corner we have the American’s who love speed and use the fallacy “my setup works great on deer, therefore I’ll extrapolate it to everything else”. In the other corner, the laws of physics.

If you want to see the most embarrassing examples of Americans hunting with bows ever recorded, take a look at the videos of African bow hunts by Driess Visser safaris. The videos are actually quite good as far as where the shots should be placed. Driess appears to run a good African bowhunting operation as well.

But the American clientele are an embarassment. These huge guys with these huge bows shooting animals at 20 yards, over, and over, and over again they cannot get a pass through shot.

Powerful bows + light arrows + launch at high speed + mechanicals / non-cut on contact = stupid end results.

I kid you not, my ten year old drawing 37-40lbs at 22.5” draw length gets more consistent pass through than the 70lb-80lb bow crowd with “speed bows” hunting these days.

It’s a pet peeve of mine. 99% of archery shops support the fallacies. Laws of physics disagree with the marketing campaigns of the modern American archery product Manufacturer.

Could not agree more..! The marketing campaigns of these companies are extremely successful at convincing hunters the bigger the broadhead and faster the bow, the better results. Unfortunately, as you mention, nothing could be further from the truth.

Watching these celebrity-endorsed commercials or just buying what their hunting buddy buys is about as much research as the average bow hunter does when buying bows and selecting arrow components. Half of the "experts" in these archery shops are no better. They propagate much of the same bad advice when selling bows and arrows to their customers.

 

[rookhawk]

Just like the Sunday school lesson: the path is narrow.

my son won a $200 gift card for an archery shop in Wisconsin. The State’s largest shop I might add. My son gave me a list of 35 things he was interested in. I called before driving many hours and asked if they had any of the 35 things. Not one of them. They then told me politely, I was a moron and I shouldn’t want any of this. They then told me my son’s arrows were all wrong.

the crazy list my kid asked for?

VIctory or Sirius arrows
Ethics archery inserts
Fletching
Carter or Stanislaw releases
Tuffhead, kudu, iron will, or VPA broadheads
Tight spot quivers
Copper john TST sight
150gr-275gr field points

All I know is my son has never failed to get a full pass through on American game with his setup. And in Africa, the only issues were with the substandard grizzly sticks broadheads that are garbage.

trying to build proper arrows in the USA of proper FOC and a single bevel broadhead requires Internet ordering. No retailer stocks this stuff.

 

[CRowe]

Which grizzly stick heads were you using? This makes me nervous because I just bought a dozen 200gr Maasai’s

 

[rookhawk]

Which grizzly stick heads were you using? This makes me nervous because I just bought a dozen 200gr Maasai’s

My son was using another model which I can’t recall right now, not the Maasai.

If it were me, I’d go with one of these two setups:

1.) Iron Will single bevel broadhead, plus ethics archery inserts and collars.

2.) Tuff head two blade single bevels, plus ethics archery inserts and collars.

Bonus points by going with Sirius Archery shafts. If I had to do it over again, I would not do the 4mm shafts, I would do the 5mm. While they are measuring static spine accurately, the recovery time from flex appears shorter in the larger OD shafts. I believe that may increase penetration greater than the deficit of slightly larger surface area of shaft passing through the animal.

 

[CRowe]

Gotcha. I used the single bevel iron wills last year with no complaints. I been using SS ethics components in everything. I’ve been shooting grizzlystik shafts for a few years but I’ve got 6 Sirius Apollo .204s I’m about to start messing with. The GrizzlyStik’s have been super tough shafts but the straightness sucks. Thanks for the reply

 

[rookhawk]

You’re definitely on the right path. Sirius shafts are tops. Ethics inserts are tops. Iron Will single bevels are tops.

Play with those until you get perfect flight and have a great hunt. No need for Grizzly Stix shafts or broadheads, both with some dubious qualities.