Thinking about a 405 Winchester

[jduckhunter]

I need your help, there's a Ruger #1 Tropical Stainless in 405 Win. coming up at auction here soon and I'm thinking about buying it. I keep trying to convince myself that I need it, but I'm having a hard time making up my mind. I mean I am planning a return trip to Africa in 2020, but it's not like I'm under gunned or anything. Probably just going to be a plains game hunt, but one never knows for sure. I've got everything up to and including 30-06 pretty well covered, then I have a 300 H&H in a #1, a 338 Win. Mag and a 375 Ruger both in 77's. Do I need a 405 Win. ? What do you think?

 

[matt85]

if you want a 405 for collectors reasons or historic reasons then go for it!

however there is no practical reason to own a 405 when compared to most more common cartridges. it wont do anything another more modern/common cartridge wouldn't do better.

-matt

 

[BeeMaa]

Thinking the same way Matt85 is.
Typically loaded with 300gr to 2200fps, you get better performance from your 375Ruger.
However for cool factor...
Some firearms/cartridges are a funny thing and just call to us for whatever reason.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I need one too, in an 1895 though, it is a super cool cartridge. My rationale behind buying one is that I don’t have one yet! I’m sure I have 20 rifles that can do something better than the 405 but they are not chambered in one of TR’s favorite rifle/cartridge combos! Plus the Hornady boxes with TR and the Rhino are bad ass.
Buy it!

 

[Bsto270]

In my opinion if you got the money for a new gun , go for it. I have all sorts of odd calibers I would love to own, including 6.5 Rem mag, 300 H&H, and the list goes on. The 405 is a unique cartridge. Sure you could find a few uses for a nice #1 in that chambering.

 

[crs]

Why would anyone want such an old cartridge and rifle design? I have two 1895 405s and one double:


They are fun! And easy to shoot and have taken everything from pronghorn to Cape buffalo.
A hand loader can use bullets from 210 to 400 grains. My 1895 and Simson double both shoot 400 grain Woodies at 450/400 velocity.

 

[sestoppelman]

Its a great round capable of very good accuracy, Varget is your friend. I took a Win 95 to RSA a few years ago. I also had a nice No. 1 and did some experimenting with 400 gr bullets in it. I wrote up the project for Gun World where I was a semi regular contributor for a few years. You can hoss up the No.1 in the .405 to almost duplicate the .450-400 factory loads. Recoil is a bit stiff at those levels.....

 

[jduckhunter]

Its a great round capable of very good accuracy, Varget is your friend. I took a Win 95 to RSA a few years ago. I also had a nice No. 1 and did some experimenting with 400 gr bullets in it. I wrote up the project for Gun World where I was a semi regular contributor for a few years. You can hoss up the No.1 in the .405 to almost duplicate the .450-400 factory loads. Recoil is a bit stiff at those levels.....

Thanks ses, there's another reason to buy it. I have a whole bunch of Varget just sitting around waiting to be burned.

 

[nztimb]

however there is no practical reason to own a 405 when compared to most more common cartridges. it wont do anything another more modern/common cartridge wouldn't do better.

-matt

Since when has ""no practical reason"" been a viable answer to anyone on the forum when they ask if they should buy a rifle and what difference does it make if there is a modern cartridge that would do better. Better is subjective anyway and has no place in this discussion.

 

[Rick Cox]

Why would anyone want such an old cartridge and rifle design? I have two 1895 405s and one double:


They are fun! And easy to shoot and have taken everything from pronghorn to Cape buffalo.
A hand loader can use bullets from 210 to 400 grains. My 1895 and Simson double both shoot 400 grain Woodies at 450/400 velocity.

Just curious: what kind of accuracy does your 1895 get?

 

[bruce moulds]

i have a falling block works action with a ron smith gaintwist barrel .
the barrel ends in 1:13" twist.
i have shot this from 300 to 1000 yds on a fullbore range for some years using 80 to 85 gns if swiss 1.5f black powder.
bullets are 440 gn elliptical nosed paper patched to bore diameter, doing around 1300 fps.
the bullets take 3 seconds to reach 1000 yds, giving time to look in the spotting scope and see dust go up.
this rifle has on occasion scored higer than the odd 308 fullbore rifle.
bruce.

 

[HWL]

I need your help, there's a Ruger #1 Tropical Stainless in 405 Win. coming up at auction here soon and I'm thinking about buying it.

Do I need a 405 Win. ?

YES!!!

You will love it,.... the cartridge an the gun….

I have a SxS in .405 Winchester and I would not hesitate to buy a Ruger No. 1 too ….could I get one.


HWL

 

[crs]

Von Gruff said - " Better is subjective anyway and has no place in this discussion."
Amen and thank you, Von Gruff.

Rick Cox asked about accuracy - with the 1895 .405 -
I confess that I have never shot paper targets from a bench rest to determine maximum accuracy.
I can say that I usually hit game at which I shoot. + When prepping for DG in Africa, I did all my practice shooting offhand or from sticks. From 100 yards, my best was 5 shots (one in chamber and four in magazine) into an 8 inch bull. I figured that was good enough for a cow sized critter.

 

[crs]

WRT accuracy of .405 cartridge ( I already dodged the question of 1895 .405 accuracy).
When my Simson double came to me, it was regulated to a hand load at 2100 fps and I wanted it regulated with Hornady factory .405 ammo at 2225 fps. To convince myself that re-regulation was a good idea, I spent some time at the range on a bench rest shooting Hornady 300 grain ammo from each barrel separately; each barrel shot MOA groups!
I did the same exercise with my hand loads using N133 and Hornady 400 grain bullets and they also shot MOA! So, each barrel was very accurate.


Aaron Little then regulated the rifle with Hornady 300 grain ammo and it then shot a four shot group of one inch at 50 yards.


My conclusion was that the cartridge and rifle are accurate.

 

[AZDAVE]

Everyone has covered most of the reason to get your 405 and or use something else discussion. So I will approach this from a reloading standpoint. Since you are only going to have the #1 and not have to worry about exceeding pressure levels for a lever gun or double rifle. With a #1 you can load to 450/400 level loads with in the safe limits of the #1 action. If you are going to reload for your rifle you can load from the factory 300gr at 2200 level to 450/400 level. The brass will have a shorter life span at the higher pressures but that is the price one pays for loading to a higher pressure that is standard. If you aren't going to reload and want 450/400 level power just buy a #1 in 450/400 and go shoot something. as the 405 and 450/400 both have a cool factor.

 

[bruce moulds]

one thing about the 405 is the availability of good hornady brass.
max saami spec pressure for the 405 is well under the capability of that brass.
bruce.

 

[crs]

Good point Bruce about pressures and good brass.

I extended the M1895 .405 WCF chamber to crimp Woodleigh 400 grainers at the cannelure and have 25 thou clearance from rifling. I loaded 400 grain Hornady and Woodleigh bullets to 2076 fps MV using TAC and generated 48,000 PSI per my Pressure Trace II equipment. This was my target velocity and it proved fatal for a bison and a Cape buff. The rifle and brass proved to be up to the pressure.

My 300 grain Northfork FPS loads at 2250 fps would likely done the job, but it was fun to push the rifle to 450/400 performance levels.

I have good 400 grain accuracy and regulation in my .405 double at 2050 fps, so no need to push it higher.

 

[1dirthawker]

Everyone has covered most of the reason to get your 405 and or use something else discussion. So I will approach this from a reloading standpoint. Since you are only going to have the #1 and not have to worry about exceeding pressure levels for a lever gun or double rifle. With a #1 you can load to 450/400 level loads with in the safe limits of the #1 action. If you are going to reload for your rifle you can load from the factory 300gr at 2200 level to 450/400 level. The brass will have a shorter life span at the higher pressures but that is the price one pays for loading to a higher pressure that is standard. If you aren't going to reload and want 450/400 level power just buy a #1 in 450/400 and go shoot something. as the 405 and 450/400 both have a cool factor.

AZDAVE has it right, get a 450/400 in the #1. then, don't look back

 

[bruce moulds]

450/400 in a no 1 and you might not look anywhere, back or otherwise, because your eyes might pop out of your head when you fire it from recoil in such a light gun.
300 gn northfork at 2250 sounds interesting.
bruce.

 

[bilmcc]

450/400 in a no 1 and you might not look anywhere, back or otherwise, because your eyes might pop out of your head when you fire it from recoil in such a light gun.
300 gn northfork at 2250 sounds interesting.
bruce.

I put a LimbSaver recoil pad on mine (on all my No. 1s). That has made the shoulder recoil tolerable. Getting a God'aGrip sorbathane pad to lessen the slap up side the head that 450/400 gives me. We have the technology!