Thoughts on reviving a cowboy cartridge for dangerous game

[Ontario Hunter]

Back in '70 when I was about to start my first govt job, my gun shop employer offered to make me a deal on any rifle in his collection. I picked this 1881 Marlin in 40-60, a 45-70 necked down to 40 caliber.

I found an Ideal tong tool all-in-one loader for 40-65 Winchester, which is essentially the same cartridge, and shot up a box but the bullet it cast is undersized. Into the safe it went and there it sits for fifty years.

Recently I have been giving some thought to reviving this cartridge. The rifle will stay in the safe. Too valuable as a collector to risk damaging it. But I think a forty caliber bullet pushed out of a 45-70 case has a lot of potential. My buddy has a couple of Siamese Mausers and I think he could be persuaded to part with one. And I have a P14 junker in the safe that could be fixed up. Both can handle rimmed cartridges. I'm sure I could have dies custom made. Finding someone to make the barrel might be a challenge. And does anyone still make 40 caliber bullets?

It's an intriguing idea. Yes, there is the old rimmed 40 caliber rimmed double rifle Nitro cartridge but finding brass for them is not easy. 45-70 brass is relatively abundant. I think it would be possible to put enough gas behind a 40 cal bullet to make it very effective at dangerous game, especially with modern metal technology and powders. Any thoughts?

 

[hoytcanon]

Why? The cartridge is anemic, the platform undesirable, what is the attraction? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for playing around with cartridges and rifles...however the rationale doesn't hold up to close scrutiny... and the parent case would be just as effective and a whole lot simpler and neater in all regards...

But again, I'm all for messing around... so do it and document your progress.

 

[IvW]

Just get a Nr.1 in 450/400 3" NE........much better idea......

 

[86thecat]

With so many great DG cartridges, with such great histories in Africa it's interesting that so many have a Red Ryder on steroids fixation.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Why? The cartridge is anemic, the platform undesirable, what is the attraction? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for playing around with cartridges and rifles...however the rationale doesn't hold up to close scrutiny... and the parent case would be just as effective and a whole lot simpler and neater in all regards...

But again, I'm all for messing around... so do it and document your progress.

The cartridge WAS anemic in its lever action context. It has a lot more potential gassed up for a stout bolt action. If a 375 cartridge or .423 caliber 404 Jeffery can kill dangerous game, I'm sure a 40 caliber can do it ... without battering the shooter.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Just get a Nr.1 in 450/400 3" NE........much better idea......

Good luck finding brass. No problem finding 45-70 brass here.

 

[hoytcanon]

The cartridge WAS anemic in its lever action context. It has a lot more potential gassed up for a stout bolt action. If a 375 cartridge or .423 caliber 404 Jeffery can kill dangerous game, I'm sure a 40 caliber can do it ... without battering the shooter.

Ok, let me ask you this... you're planning your next DG hunt and you stand in front of your safe trying to decide which rifle to bring along... are you really going to choose this one?

 

[Uncontrolled_round_feed]

 

[JimP]

Ok, let me ask you this... you're planning your next DG hunt and you stand in front of your safe trying to decide which rifle to bring along... are you really going to choose this one?

In defence of this idea,I just might.

If I did proper load development and knew the capabilities of it why wouldn't I?

With modern bullets and powders it might be a quite capable round.

 

[hoytcanon]

In defence of this idea,I just might.

If I did proper load development and knew the capabilities of it why wouldn't I?

With modern bullets and powders it might be a quite capable round.

Easy to say, until you are packing... been there, done that.

This is why I say, just do it for the fun. Gun nutters spend too much time trying to justify our whims, mostly to ourselves... "Just Because" is a terrific reason.

 

[Papa72]

Might shoot an email to Chaszel (Central Tooling) and ask if they will cut you one of their threaded barrel blanks in .40 cal. They do offer a shotgun adapter in .40 so I figure they are already setup with the tooling.

 

[JimP]

Easy to say, until you are packing... been there, done that.

This is why I say, just do it for the fun. Gun nutters spend too much time trying to justify our whims, mostly to ourselves... "Just Because" is a terrific reason.

I've done that a number of times but it comes down to the reasoning if the cartridge is capable for the task, why not?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Might shoot an email to Chaszel (Central Tooling) and ask if they will cut you one of their threaded barrel blanks in .40 cal. They do offer a shotgun adapter in .40 so I figure they are already setup with the tooling.

Thanks. Finding a reamer might be the bigger (biggest?) challenge. Apparently there are sources for making custom copper bullets in forty caliber. And I could always have a lead bullet mold made for range practice.

I think this cartridge has more potential than 45-70.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I’m just about to start playing with the 40-65 win in a 1875 Sharps. If nothing else it will be fun

 

[flatwater bill]

The Siamese Mauser is strong, and new Hornady brass is strong....the old BP cases were not. I have a 40-65 and also have tried to get all of the power one can reasonably get from a 45-70 in a Ruger No 1 (recoil is intolerable). You will get less from the 40-60. Sounds like a fun project. But unless you plan to live forever, I'd be thinking about taking that old Marlin on a pronghorn or deer hunt with a good original load and make some memories. ..........keep us posted...........FWB

 

[hoytcanon]

Thanks. Finding a reamer might be the bigger (biggest?) challenge. Apparently there are sources for making custom copper bullets in forty caliber. And I could always have a lead bullet mold made for range practice.

I think this cartridge has more potential than 45-70.

The reamer and dies are no problem. I have had PT&G make custom reamers to my specs and John Whidden can make the dies right from PT&G's blueprints.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks. Finding a reamer might be the bigger (biggest?) challenge. Apparently there are sources for making custom copper bullets in forty caliber. And I could always have a lead bullet mold made for range practice.

I think this cartridge has more potential than 45-70.

@Ontario Hunter
Dave Manson at Manson reamers will make anything your heart desires and will even help you with the planning.
When I had my 25 reamer made I discussed changes with Dave and what he thought as well.
In the end I ended up with a unique cartridge that exceeds all my expectations.
Why did I do it??? BECAUSE I HAD AN IDEA AND DREAM. Basically because I could. If it didn't work out how I envisioned it was just a simple job to run a 257 Weatherby reamer into it and make it a Weatherby. Fortunately it worked and works well.
The only reason you need is BECAUSE .
Bob

 

[mark-hunter]

Why? The cartridge is anemic, the platform undesirable, what is the attraction? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for playing around with cartridges and rifles...however the rationale doesn't hold up to close scrutiny... and the parent case would be just as effective and a whole lot simpler and neater in all regards...

But again, I'm all for messing around... so do it and document your progress.

I am in full agreement with this statement!

 

[Sarg]

Well if you can get a 400gr bullet to 2000 - 2100fps it would work but there are much better cartridges easier to come by & run, 45/70-45/90 being a couple, other than standard DG cartridges .

Does it use .410 bullets like .450/400 & 405Win, I was going to beef up a .405Win years ago but many have done it since .

 

[62flint]

I really like the old Bp cartridges, being nostalgic and all. launching a big hunk of lead at the moon only to hear it smack steel a bit latter is just cool.
Now for Africa, being nostalgic I would truly like a double, can not justify it so I got a older bolt gun in 375, maybe one day I will get me a falling block of some sorts.
Hmmm Maybe a 45/120 sharps?????????????