Toughest Scope: Trijicon? Leopold? Others?

[Alaska Luke]

I have a Leopold Freedom 1-4 on my 375 Ruger and it has worked out well enough. Occasionally it seems the zero wonders a tad, maybe 1 MOA. It is not clear whether this is me or the scope. All I can say is my Leopold 2-7 on a 308 has been more consistent, smaller groups AND it never seems to wonder. If a group opens up because I'm tired and shooting bad it seems more centered just bigger.

Because of this I'm considering a scope upgrade. My 375 is my "bear gun" so I really don't want it to fail me at an bad time.

Does anyone have an opinion about how tough a Leopold is compared to other stuff out there (sub $1000)? Right now an old style Trijicon Accupoint 1-4 looks like the best bet. I like the sleek construction and light weight compared to the tactical style scopes by other companies. The illuminated reticle is not totally necessary but nice.

How do Trijicon Accupoints hold up to recoil and to being bumped into things? I've heard a few good reports. Has anyone broken one? Has anyone had one survive abuse?

 

[Scott CWO]

NightForce are near the top in toughness but are over $1000. This according to my buddy just retired from SF.

 

[Doug3006]

Leupolds have earned a good reputation as durable, reliable scopes. So have Trijicons. Which is more durable? That’s impossible to say. But both are good scopes. Most all quality scopes are now as durable as needed under hunting conditions. Holding zero is paramount, and I’ve never heard many complaints about wandering points of impact from major names in optics. Companies like Leupold stand behind their products.

Premium scopes like Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Leica and Zeiss have a leg up in terms of optical quality. The difference in clarity, and color accuracy, can be quantified. What’s been interesting to see over time is the diminishing difference between the optical quality of middle of the road and top end scopes. Once upon a time, there was a huge difference. Not as much now.

 

[Hogpatrol]

From personal experience, i.e. my XP100 dropping off a shooting bench and on to the concrete, Nightforce hands down. There are numerous torture test videos on the web.
Just one:

Manufacturing video:

 

[Alaska Luke]

Wow, I had not seen that kind of torture test! If that didn't break it I don't think my hunting will.

 

[JimP]

A couple of friends who are outfitters in Colorado and Arizona only reccomend Leopold and Nightforce.

They do a lot of pack trips using horses and they are amazed at the beating that both brands will take and never loose zero

 

[TucsonFX4]

While I’ve never subjected any of my optics to any torture tests or extreme scenarios, all roads point to NightForce as one of the top options. Coincidentally, I’m selling one on here

Though, it isn’t in the price range mentioned nor is it the best zoom range for a 375.

Can you swap optics and put a different scope on your 375 and the current 375 scope onto a different rifle? That may help you determine if the scope is wandering or if it’s just you.

 

[Alaska Luke]

Switching the 1-4 to another rifle is an idea I could explore later. Currently don't have a great place to shoot until someone plows out the road to the shooting range (snowed in).

Good news is I'm moving the a place in the country soon so I should be able to set up and shoot to at least 50 yards to do these types of experiments. Just so we are clear I am concerned about a couple things
1. Is my Leopold 1-4 a bit "sloppy" in holding zero under recoil? Its never been catastrophically off but it has made me wonder a few times. A smaller rifle might not really totally rule that out but it might confirm it IS a problem if it does the same thing on a 308.

2. Is my rifle shifting slightly at unpredictable times due to the normal bumps of a hunting trip? I might site the rifle in and just leave it unprotected in my car trunk for while I drive around a while than check zero before hunting season.

I could probably sleep a bit easier at night if I switched to a NF but again, not really financially feasible right on. If I can't get better luck with a $800 Trijicon I'll keep the Leopold or just go with iron sites only for a bit.

 

[TucsonFX4]

I would suggest, if you aren’t already, to keep detailed records of your range sessions. It sounds like you have some concerns over some small details (I would be the same way), and the best way to sort those out is through keeping records of the small details. Range sessions should include keeping the targets, weather details, any scope adjustments, flinches, clean vs fouled barrel, etc. that may help you isolate seemingly small drifts in POI.

I have found for me, I can remember all the little details of my last range session, even if it’s been several weeks, but as soon as I get to the range again, my memory is wiped and all I remember are the details from my new session at the range. Writing down all the details allows me to look back at the data and see that a particular rifle pulls left 1/2” when it’s below 50 degrees for example.

Good luck. Every scope manufacturer has a bad apple every now and then, but you have a quality brand that will make it right if something is off.

 

[USMA84DAB]

My .375 Ruger Alaskan went through the normal airline bumps for a safari with Somerby Safaris for 10 days. It also got the "roll the bakkie" test. When I got it home and checked the zero, it was dead nuts on, in spite of flying down an interstate at 65 miles per hour. Leupold VX5HD, 1.5-5x20.

I had a Client bring a VX-II, 2-7x36 to the range. He could not adjust the diopter and when I really cranked on it to loosen it, the reticle crosshair snapped. We sent it back to Leupold and they sent him a brand spankin' new VX-Freedom 2-7x36. Since the original was bought sometime in the 70s, he got a significant upgrade in optical quality.

I have seen photos of 2 different ACOGs with AK bullet holes in them. The Soldier/Marine used it with no problem until they got back to their hooch.

I have over a dozen Leupolds. I have never had a problem with them shifting zero. Could it happen, sure - the Space Shuttle became a bottle rocket. Anything manmade can break.

The switch suggested above should tell you if it is the scope or the knothead behind it. Usually, any problems I have had in the past were the knothead behind the scope.

I have a Mark AR, 1-4x20 Leupold on an 8lb. .416 Ruger Alaskan, and it shoots 5 round groups at 1 MOA at 100 yards. I don't think you will have a problem with Leupolds, but if you did, they have stood behind things in my experience.

 

[TKessel]

I’ve never had any problems with Leupold, traveling or everyday use.
I know Vortex is popular, but I don’t think they are the same quality

 

[meigsbucks]

I own north of twenty Leupolds. I had to send one new one back as the magnification dial was extremely stiff. I got it back in a short period of time and it works fine.
I’ve only had one Leupold get knocked out of zero: I took a tumble and landed on top of it. It began shooting about 8” high. After adjusting it, it hasn’t moved after about 200 rounds of .30/06.
I have a few Leupolds that have been on rifles for upwards of 40+ yrs and look they they’ve been thru three world wars and haven’t lost zero.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I had one Leupold that started wandering. Leupold replaced the scope no questions no charge. Great scopes, but today nothing but Swarovski. That said, there are several premium scope brands.

 

[MarkB]

My 375 bear/DG rifle wears a leupold scope, as do many other guns I have. All are the 3x9x33 ultralights. Cannot get them now. I do have a few drawer queen VX2's that I sent for repairs as the power dials got so stiff. All were returned fixed with an explanation, gasket and grease hardened at Canadian winter temps.

I think the freedoms are the lowest entry level scopes in the Leopold line up, but still should hold zero. They are also 1/3 the cost (at least here where I am) and half the weight of some of the other brands listed in this thread.

From what you state, I think I would start narrowing down the possibilities. Every thing tight? Bases? rings? If yes then I would recommend returning scope for a check-up. This before spending a $1000 on what may not be needed or swapping scopes. That burns ammo and $$ fast at todays rates, if you even have "spare" ammo.

I have no knowledge or a judgement on what scope under $1000 is tougher than another. Leupold has never let me down, even the ones on 6 1/2 lb 338s, 375 or even 6 lb 308's.

MB

 

[Paul G]

A Leupold is not even close to a Trijicon as far as durability. if you want a scope you can beat off a tree you get a NF or Trijicon. Not saying they are the best, but built different.

 

[R eight]

I have a Leopold Freedom 1-4 on my 375 Ruger and it has worked out well enough. Occasionally it seems the zero wonders a tad, maybe 1 MOA. It is not clear whether this is me or the scope. All I can say is my Leopold 2-7 on a 308 has been more consistent, smaller groups AND it never seems to wonder. If a group opens up because I'm tired and shooting bad it seems more centered just bigger.

Because of this I'm considering a scope upgrade. My 375 is my "bear gun" so I really don't want it to fail me at an bad time.

Does anyone have an opinion about how tough a Leopold is compared to other stuff out there (sub $1000)? Right now an old style Trijicon Accupoint 1-4 looks like the best bet. I like the sleek construction and light weight compared to the tactical style scopes by other companies. The illuminated reticle is not totally necessary but nice.

How do Trijicon Accupoints hold up to recoil and to being bumped into things? I've heard a few good reports. Has anyone broken one? Has anyone had one survive abuse?

I’d suggest that the below advice would be a great first ste

I would suggest, if you aren’t already, to keep detailed records of your range sessions. It sounds like you have some concerns over some small details (I would be the same way), and the best way to sort those out is through keeping records of the small details. Range sessions should include keeping the targets, weather details, any scope adjustments, flinches, clean vs fouled barrel, etc. that may help you isolate seemingly small drifts in POI.

I have found for me, I can remember all the little details of my last range session, even if it’s been several weeks, but as soon as I get to the range again, my memory is wiped and all I remember are the details from my new session at the range. Writing down all the details allows me to look back at the data and see that a particular rifle pulls left 1/2” when it’s below 50 degrees for example.

Good luck. Every scope manufacturer has a bad apple every now and then, but you have a quality brand that will make it right if something is off.

and, there are better scopes than Leupold. But how much better? And how much more do you want to pay? Leupold make good gear, have brilliant customer service and warranty….all for a good price.
For a no nonsense scope (on a budget)for a bear rifle then their 2x fixed would be hard to beat.

FX-II Ultralight 2.5x20 Wide Duplex

When every ounce counts, Leupold® Ultralight riflescopes offer the lightweight, high-performance optical power you need. The 2.5x lends itself to more applications, on more rifles, than any other scope in the line.

www.leupold.com

 

[Alaska Luke]

Here is the current plan.

1. Replace the small front site on my .375 with something a bit more visible for fast shooting (and harder to break, seen that happen). Might use irons only for spring bear bait (mostly backing up friends, not my hunts).

2. Load the .375 down with the most accurate projectiles tested (I have notes of that somewhere). Test as is with low recoil ammo to eliminate any chance of human error.

3. If there is weirdness on the .375, I can test the scope on my .308 Weirdness there, I get a new scope.

All that said, I'm getting a bit impatient. There is a narrow window between when I will be able to test zero and when I'll be hitting the field. You could make the argument that it might be faster to slap a Trijicon on the rifle and test it compared to the original Leopold. Smaller groups and I'd go straight to a replacement. Equal sized groups and I'd look for something else to blame.

I did look at one of the FX II 2.5x20 Leopolds once. It was nice but I sold it. I just thought 2.5x might be a bit too much if things got exciting with a bear. But if they are signifcantly stronger (not sure about that) I might put one in QD rings and switch to iron sites in the brush.

 

[MLindsay]

Michael at B&M big bore rifles has been rougher on scopes than anyone I know. He swears the Nikon Slughunter scope is the toughest scope ever made. I have one on my 500 A2 and has performed perfectly for a couple of hundred rounds and banging around vehicles in Africa.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Michael at B&M big bore rifles has been rougher on scopes than anyone I know. He swears the Nikon Slughunter scope is the toughest scope ever made. I have one on my 500 A2 and has performed perfectly for a couple of hundred rounds and banging around vehicles in Africa.

I've had a few Nikons and they were great scopes. Unfortunately, they are no longer in that line.

 

[JimP]

My nephew went through 5 Nikon Monarch scopes before he finally gave up on them. They would fog up, loose their point of aim and a couple other problems. He was placing them on a 270 Win short mag. Each scope was sent back to the factory for repair.

I don't know if towards their end of scope manufacture they gave up on quality control or what. This was a couple of years before they discontinued scope manufacture.