Verney Carron .500

[PaulT]

I have pined and ached for a double rifle for over half my life.

Shouldering and shooting them at every oportunity.

Drooling over client's doubles in camp whilst smiling politely and asking "if I can have a couple of shots".
Handling every-one i possibly could at every gun show I've attended in the last dozen or more years.

Purchase price for me being the main obsticle.

We'll I'm now able to report that, finaly, after deciding that i'm here for a good time, not a long time, I've placed an order with V.C for a 500.

Ken Buch from Kebco making the entire process smooth, enjoyable and totally transperant.
A+ guy to deal with.

Why a 500, well first.. cause I want one.
Second, i wanted something that will replicate the field performance i'm getting from my regular bolt guns used for back-up.
Currently relying on a 458 Lott on the buffalo hunts i operate and i believe a .500 should be on par or perhaps even more emphatic regarding "knock-down" effect.

I've asked that the weight be kept down to 10.5lbs or less with 23" barrels and ejectors.
I don't like carrying heavy guns and am not a new-comer to heavy recoiling rifles.

It will be a plain-Jane working rifle with very few, or none, bells and whistles beyond what is supplied as standard.
One single rear V sight, 3/4 extended trigger guard, custom stock dimensions and night sight.

I'll be asking that it be regulated with Hornaday ammo which is available here in Aus.

Is there anything else that I've missed that may be useful on a working gun ?

For those .500 users out there what can i realistically expect good handloads to do from 23" barrels ?

V.C stocks come standard with a palm swell on the pistol grip. I can choose to retain it or not. My personal preference is to not have it.
Comments and reasoning for/against appreciated.

What sort of accuracy can be realistically expected from a double like this with handloads, at say 50yds ?

I am being measured up in Dallas at the show and have till then to decide on the final touches.

General input, comments and advise welcomed.

Thanks in advance.

Paul.

 

[redriverjake]

Hey man,
You could tell Ken to put a hold on that and we can swing by Cabelas and pick up that Sabatti .500 they have down there... 7.6 lbs, plenty light.

 

[richteb]

Paul, Firstly let me congratulate you on the adoption of your new baby. By all accounts V.C doubles are fine guns and will provide years of reliable service ( like a good woman).

The only advice I can really give is regarding pistol grip palm swell. The doubles that I have seen all seem to have fairly slender pistol grips, at least compared to my bolt guns and since I have fairly big hands I would probably go for the palm swell to allow a firm grip, especially on large bore guns.

As far as accuracy goes and from what I have read the key is how well the double is regulated.

You mention that you will be using Hornady ammo, I would suggest talking to V.C and making sure that you can duplicated the load with our powders and also if you are going to use other projectiles that they are the same as the Hornady DGX and DGS ones they use in their ammo. For example I have mate who has 375 Flanged double regulated for Norma ammo (uses Woodleigh slugs) and he cannot produce a hand load that will shoot the same as the Norma stuff. On top of that Norma have stopped loading the 375 in 350 gn projectiles so when stock runs out he will not be able to get ammo that his gun is regulated for. This means getting it re-regulated for something else.

Hope this helps and I wish you many years of enjoyment from your new toy.

 

[PaulT]

Hey Jake, we'll be swinging by Cabelas for sure but I'll be leaving the Sabatti in the cabinet.

I've ummmed and arrred for long enough, now i'm sticking with this choice.
V.C it is !

Richteb, I hear what your saying and on both counts Im still fairly undecided.
Regarding the ammo I'll be relying on the factory Hornaday stuff to a certain extent but hope to load my own with either C.E.B's or Northforks.
The company building the rifle does not accept handloads for the gun to be regulated with (very few if any do) so it will be a trial and error excersise to find what matches P.O.I of the ammo used for regulation.
Fortunately I have some freinds in the U.S with experience in loading the C.E.B's and getting them to regulate, in their .500's, and are reporting a full 2150fps loads from 23" barrels !

The palm swell issue is something i need to think more about. It doesn't feel natural to me, I have small hands and dont THINK I need it but will be discussing both points in more details with the manufacturer in Dallas.

Thank-you both for your input, these are pretty nice problems to have

 

[DUGABOY1]

Hey Jake, we'll be swinging by Cabelas for sure but I'll be leaving the Sabatti in the cabinet.

I've ummmed and arrred for long enough, now i'm sticking with this choice.
V.C it is !

Richteb, I hear what your saying and on both counts Im still fairly undecided.
Regarding the ammo I'll be relying on the factory Hornaday stuff to a certain extent but hope to load my own with either C.E.B's or Northforks.
The company building the rifle does not accept handloads for the gun to be regulated with (very few if any do) so it will be a trial and error excersise to find what matches P.O.I of the ammo used for regulation.
Fortunately I have some freinds in the U.S with experience in loading the C.E.B's and getting them to regulate, in their .500's, and are reporting a full 2150fps loads from 23" barrels !

The palm swell issue is something i need to think more about. It doesn't feel natural to me, I have small hands and dont THINK I need it but will be discussing both points in more details with the manufacturer in Dallas.

Thank-you both for your input, these are pretty nice problems to have

The first good decision you made was going to the VC double rifle! They offer as standard many items that are expensive add-ons on most other brands! I have handled and shot three different VC double rifle and I find them very well made and strong, but the best of this is they are very accurate. The lock up system is very well designed, and all three of the ones I致e handled and shot fit me well, and handled like they were made for me! Of course most well made doubles fit me reasonably well, but because you are being fitted for your rifle fit is not an issue. I think your best choice was to totally disregard even thinking of buying a Sabatti double rifle! They just have too many issues evidenced by the very high number of brand new Sabattis on the used market, because of those issues.

On the issue of the ammo, IMO, anyone who shoots a double rifle must hand-load for it to get the absolute best from his rifle. Once you find the proper load for your rifle then buy 100 pieces of new brass and bullets and load it up and store it for all your hunting. Get a couple of 20 rounds boxes of brass to load, and re-load for stump shooting for practice! With the North Fork you will have to slow them down some because they exhibited less back-pressure or friction with the same load when a standard jacketed lead core bullet is used. My pick for a 500NE is the North Fork FPS.

Congratulations on your choice, and welcome to the DRSS! When you come to the Dallas Safari show ask about the room for AR, and DSC members get together! You値l meet a lot of double rifle owners and hunters there for sure!

??????????ac! (MacD37 on AR, and DUGABOY1 here)

 

[classicsafari]

24" V-C 470, 25" V-C 470, 25' V-C 450, 25.3' Famars 470 and a Sabatti 500 (soon to be replaced by a V-C 500).

 

[PaulT]

Thanks for your input Duggaboy.

I'll definitely be handloading for it, either N.F's or C.E.B's I'm not sure yet. I'll be meeting up with a few experienced and knowledgable double rifle folks in Dallas who, as you say, will be able to steer me in the right direction.

Positive feedback such as this gives me confidence in my choice of the V.C rifle.
All doubles are expensive.
Some can be an expensive and regretable mistake and others will provide what is asked of them.

I believe the V.C is "the goods".

Neat pic of all those doubles Adam.
Heck of a V.C line up and a Famars as well !!!!

The 6 - 10 month wait is going to be looong.

Cheers all,
Paul.

 

[spike.t]

paul do they think they can keep the weight to 10.5lbs? i got measured at the verney carron booth in vegas just in case!! i looked at them in reno last year and was impressed. whats your delivery date?

 

[PaulT]

Spike, they will go awefully close to 10.5lbs, might be a tad over.
V.C were extremely helpful in wanting to achieve my desired specs but their focus is also to have the gun balance on the hinge pin as any good double does.

What helps is that I was for keeping the barrels as short as practicable (23") which helps in keeping the overall weight down, as well as balancing the rifle back on the hinge pin.

No doubt there will also be a certain amount of weight within the butt-stock which I have the option to remove later down the track.

I'm very fortunate that only a week or so before placing my order with V.C in Dallas, I was able to fire an identical V.C, belonging to a freind, which also weighed in at around 10.5lbs.
Very comfortable and smooth to handle and shoot.

Quoted build time from V.C is 6-10 months.
I'm hoping that it arrives before I leave home for my hunting camp as I am in that camp until end of Oct each year with no means for accessing the gun if it arrives after June. I did not want to put undue pressure on V.C to try and complete prior to June as I would prefer the job is done well as oposed to quickly.

Regards,

Paul.

 

[spike.t]

thanks for the info, hope it arrives in time. could be a nail biter !!

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Paul.T good on ya! I also wanted one for the longest time and I got a .500 it is a ripper, might not be the best but it does the job at 25 yards and under as good as any other, I know exactly how you feel right now...For me it was a dream to own one and every time I shoot it I.... CENSORED......, and I just love it.

Enjoy it and I hope you have a good season, say hi to George Stewart if you run into him.
My best always.

 

[PaulT]

Spike & Jaco, thanks.

I pace the floor like an expectant father !

If the gun doesn't make it before June I will have to wait fully until next year's hunting season to "wring" it out.
None-the-less, I've waited 46 years to get one.... a few more months, so be it.

Jaco, I'm interested in what you meant when you said "may not be the best but".

Are you handloading for yours, or factories ?
What ammunition are you using ?

Thanks for the well wishes for the season, it is EXTREMEMLY unlikely for me to run into George Stewart, they operate several hundred miles away from me to the West and once I'm in camp after the begining of the season I'll rarely leave until the end of the year.

Cheers,

Paul.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Paul, I have the Sabatti, and have seen much complaints as far as the regulating is concerned, point is, it was the one I could afford at the time of purchase and just wanted it with all heart, and at 30 yards or rathe 25 and under (exactly the purpose I bought it for) It works just as well as a Merkel, or Krieghoff's

I hand load and will share some info with you around Monday via PM, It would be nice If you could have given the Kiwi turned Aussie a scratch on his spider monkey head..

Have a good season, and keep us updated.

My best always,

Spike & Jaco, thanks.

I pace the floor like an expectant father !

If the gun doesn't make it before June I will have to wait fully until next year's hunting season to "wring" it out.
None-the-less, I've waited 46 years to get one.... a few more months, so be it.

Jaco, I'm interested in what you meant when you said "may not be the best but".

Are you handloading for yours, or factories ?
What ammunition are you using ?

Thanks for the well wishes for the season, it is EXTREMEMLY unlikely for me to run into George Stewart, they operate several hundred miles away from me to the West and once I'm in camp after the begining of the season I'll rarely leave until the end of the year.

Cheers,

Paul.

 

[PaulT]

Hey Jaco, my confusion.

When you said "not as good as some" I thought that may have been a reference to the .500 N.E cartridge in some way, hence my questioning.

Regarding the Sabattis, a freind of mine in the U.S has one, I saw it in person and only didn't shoot it as I had had a big day, that particular day, with a number of other 45+ cal rifles and the Sabatti just didn't fit me well, other than that I could not fault it's funtion or appearance.
On top of that, in the owners hands, it shot superbly and totally relaible to boot.

Like yours, this .500 is specifically for my early season (thick cover), close cover Trophy bull hunts where IF the shit hits the fan there is little/no time to crank a bolt when your 20 - 30yds out from an incoming !
That second barrel instantly available is mighty reassuring.

Cheers,

Paul.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Paul, I have used it with very satisfactory results on buff and Ele, it's wicked I still like my bolt (460) but must say the more I fire and use the sabatti the less I shoot any of my bolts.... Don't know why maybe the romance......

That second barrel is reassuring for sure, I have found from an African perspective that a bolt is just as good on Dangerous game and certain situations you have the advantage with a bolt and then in other the double.

There is one thing I believe in and that is on wounded Lion it is a no brainer...... Double is king, those 2 shots(barrels) you are referring to.

Enjoy it and my best..... As always,

Enjoy

 

[spike.t]

paul i am glad you have more patience than i do! if it was me and the rifle arrived any time after going to the bush i would be:demented:!!!

 

[spike.t]

Paul.T good on ya! I also wanted one for the longest time and I got a .500 it is a ripper, might not be the best but it does the job at 25 yards and under as good as any other, I know exactly how you feel right now...For me it was a dream to own one and every time I shoot it I.... CENSORED......, and I just love it.

Enjoy it and I hope you have a good season, say hi to George Stewart if you run into him.
My best always.

jaco know where you coming from, holding and shooting doubles is a bit orga..ic!!!!!!!!! we obviously a bit :crazylol:

 

[PaulT]

paul i am glad you have more patience than i do! if it was me and the rifle arrived any time after going to the bush i would be:demented:!!!

Spike, whilst being measured at the V.C booth in Dallas this year they had a very similiar display model to the one i've ordered that I could have taken then and there and had my double intantly, only I was conscious of the difference that custom stock fitted dimensions can make to shooting comfort (recoil) and instincitve shooting (snap shots) skills therefore I opted to customs order and wait.

Added to that, since I was going to be waiting anyway, I also added a few personal wishes which will make the rifle more applicable to my own personal use criteria.

IF the rifle DOES make it in time I've allready got a small stock of Hornady factory loads in and have dies etc on back order !

Regards,

Paul.

 

[spike.t]

paul it will be worth the wait. i was lucky with my 9.3 in that it could have been made for me. its nice to have personalized extras makes the rifle yours. if i get a VC i was going to go for the .450, but now you say they can do a .500 in the 10.5lbs region its got me thinking!!

 

[PaulT]

Spike, it is entirely possible to get a 23" barrel .500 in the 10.5lb range and a rifle built as such is entirely usable and shootable, despite what some might want to tell you.

And having the double "thump" of a .500 is very reassuring !