Vihtavouri Reloading Info and Help

[PeteG]

Hi All,

Throwing some ideas around here and discussing the differences of powders and heads, got us thinking what we would like to to with a 458 win mag.

Of the Vihtavouri powders, i see from their website that they list N130, N133 and N530 as potential powders to use in a 458 win mag with a 500gr hornady.
The question is whether anyone on here has any experience with these powders in a 458 winmag and what they would recommend?
Regarding the heads, we are thinking about woodleigh 480gr, peregrines 480gr or similar.
Any ideas, opinions and thoughts are welcome.
Obvious concerns with the 458 win mag is the case capacity, so how does the length of the bullet make a huge difference? What about seating depth etc? Any ideas on alternatives for heads?

The next point is for a 300 winmag, i currently have Somchem S365 which is quite a soft load at 65gr with the 180gr peregrine VRG3 heads, so i am thinking of going back to the old faithful in the 200gr A-Frame and possibly moving to the vihtavouri powder if there will be any benefit. I'd like to see the 200gr leave the barrel around 2,800fps or there abouts. There isnt any data on the A-Frame on the Vihtavouri website so any thoughts would be good to hear.

Cheers
Pete

 

[Shootist43]

PeteG, send Alchemist a PM he lives in Pretoria. He has worked with folks developing loads for their 300 Win Mag using Somchem 365 powder. I'm sure he will be willing to share his findings with you. If I remember correctly he owns and shoots a 300 Win Mag as well.

 

[gillettehunter]

For the .300 WM if you go the the Vit powder try the N570. A friend of mine was doing a comparison between the 30 Nosler and the .300 WM. One of
the powders he used was N570. He had a 215 gr Berger running around 3000 FPS out of a 28 inch barrel. Usually can figure on 20-30 FPS loss of velocity per inch shorter barrel. So if your barrel is 24 inches then 2900 FPS should be in reach. If you want to read about what he found let me know and I'll find it and send you a link.
Bruce

 

[dchamp]

VhitaVuori N560 & N165 would be my first choice of powders for the .300WM. Also VhitaVuori, I hear, is coming out with a new powder N565 which may prove interesting. N570 may be good with 200gr snd heavier bullets but to my thinking it is to slow for bullets lighter than 200gr's. Can't speak to the .458WM.

 

[crs]

Pete,
I have several years of experience with VVN133 and the advice and counsel of folks with much more experience. I also have all the VV load manuals back to 2006. The VV manuals have loads for both the rifle cartridges you asked about. They also contain a lot of educational information about how powders are made and how they perform; this was very helpful to me to select powders and create loads.
The current Hornady loading manual also has rifle data using VV powders in the cartridges of interest to you..

I have usedN133 with good success in my .405 Winchester with bullets from different manufacturers and weights from 210 - 400 grains.

When using a bullet other than the VV test data, it has been easy for me to just back off the powder a bit and then work up a load that suits my purpose. For example, when planning to shoot cape buffalo with 400 grain Woodleigh .411 bullets, I used the much cheaper Hornady .410 bullets until within striking distance of the desired performance and than switched to Woodleigh.

Regardless of the recommended load data for long straight cases, I use only Federal Large Rifle Match Magnum primers and this added several fps to my finished hunting ammo(over other magnum primers) and also reduced the average MV deviation.

For what it is worth, VVN133 will generate less pressure by 10,000 to 12000 PSI than most other rifle powders. This adds a nice safety margin when working up top loads. Though there should be no need for you to push the pressure limits, a chrony and pressure test equipment is very helpful when moving into
unknown territory as I have with DG loads for my .405 WCF and .45-90.

Go experiment and have fun!

 

[PeteG]

PeteG, send Alchemist a PM he lives in Pretoria. He has worked with folks developing loads for their 300 Win Mag using Somchem 365 powder. I'm sure he will be willing to share his findings with you. If I remember correctly he owns and shoots a 300 Win Mag as well.

Thanks, i did chat to him and got some good info from him when i started with the Peregrines, my issue is that once i get over 65gr of S365 the accuracy drops off badly and judging by the recoil, its not going very fast... However, it is accurate with the 180gr Plainsmasters, but to seat them out to correct (or acceptable) depth, they wont fit in my mag well! so i have a bunch of issues off the bat with the monometals, hence my thoughts of going back to the a-frames. I will chat to him for data on the a-frame loads and see what pops up.
Cheers

 

[PeteG]

For the .300 WM if you go the the Vit powder try the N570. A friend of mine was doing a comparison between the 30 Nosler and the .300 WM. One of
the powders he used was N570. He had a 215 gr Berger running around 3000 FPS out of a 28 inch barrel. Usually can figure on 20-30 FPS loss of velocity per inch shorter barrel. So if your barrel is 24 inches then 2900 FPS should be in reach. If you want to read about what he found let me know and I'll find it and send you a link.
Bruce

Hi Bruce, i wouldnt mind reading the info, can you send me the link. I'd be quite happy with a 200gr @ 2800fps. if i need more power than that... well i may have to add a new in between caliber to the safe

 

[PeteG]

VhitaVuori N560 & N165 would be my first choice of powders for the .300WM. Also VhitaVuori, I hear, is coming out with a new powder N565 which may prove interesting. N570 may be good with 200gr snd heavier bullets but to my thinking it is to slow for bullets lighter than 200gr's. Can't speak to the .458WM.

Pete,
I have several years of experience with VVN133 and the advice and counsel of folks with much more experience. I also have all the VV load manuals back to 2006. The VV manuals have loads for both the rifle cartridges you asked about. They also contain a lot of educational information about how powders are made and how they perform; this was very helpful to me to select powders and create loads.
The current Hornady loading manual also has rifle data using VV powders in the cartridges of interest to you..

I have usedN133 with good success in my .405 Winchester with bullets from different manufacturers and weights from 210 - 400 grains.

When using a bullet other than the VV test data, it has been easy for me to just back off the powder a bit and then work up a load that suits my purpose. For example, when planning to shoot cape buffalo with 400 grain Woodleigh .411 bullets, I used the much cheaper Hornady .410 bullets until within striking distance of the desired performance and than switched to Woodleigh.

Regardless of the recommended load data for long straight cases, I use only Federal Large Rifle Match Magnum primers and this added several fps to my finished hunting ammo(over other magnum primers) and also reduced the average MV deviation.

For what it is worth, VVN133 will generate less pressure by 10,000 to 12000 PSI than most other rifle powders. This adds a nice safety margin when working up top loads. Though there should be no need for you to push the pressure limits, a chrony and pressure test equipment is very helpful when moving into
unknown territory as I have with DG loads for my .405 WCF and .45-90.

Go experiment and have fun!

Thanks chaps, so just to be clear as mud, N570 or N165, possibly N565 (when it comes out) and N133 are all options

@dchamp i'll look at the options for VV powder for the 300wm and maybe get one tin to test. So far not impressed with the S365 powder in the 300wm, but its doing a perfect job in the 243win and 416 rigby. so i guess 2 out of 3 aint bad...

@crs, i was looking at the reloading tables on their website and figured the N133 would be right for the 458, i will give that a go. I'd like to see 2,100 or more with the 480gr woodleighs, whether that is realistic or not is the question at the moment.
Will stick with that as a starting point and go from there.

I will be using CCI250 primers, any objections there? If it matters at all, will be using Winchester cases.

 

[crs]

PeteG
You velocity goal should be attainable as My 1886 45.90 with 26 inch barrel (with a bit less powder capacity than a .458 Win Mag) moves out a Grizzly Cartridge DG load with a 450 grain Kodiak FMJ at 2150 fps. This has been proven deadly on Cape Buff and with a North Fork or Punch solid bullet at about 2100 fps shoots through an ele head with frontal brain shot.
With compressed loads, the mag primer is the way to go. The game does not seem to notice a few fps difference when shot with the right bullet.

You should have "enough gun".