W.J. Jeffery, Verney-Carron, Krieghoff

[Sourdough]

My three doubles, my first impressions.

Age. The W.J. Jeffery was made in 1910. The Krieghoff in 2000. The Verney-Carron in 2020.

Models. Unsure if W.J. Jeffery (extractor) had differing models in 1910. The Verney-Carron (ejector) is an AZUR. The Krieghoff (extractor) is a Classic with a wood upgrade.

Cost. The W.J. Jeffery was the most expensive. The Verney-Carron next. The Krieghoff least (perhaps because it's an extractor).

Caliber. The W.J. Jeffery is 475 No.2. The Verney-Carron is 500NE. The Krieghoff is 500NE.

Ammo availability. 500NE is available from a number of companies. 475 No.2 requires handloading- at least as far as I can tell.

Weight. The W.J. Jeffery is the heaviest at 11lbs 7oz. The Verney-Carron next at 11lbs. The Krieghoff the lightest at 10lbs.

Safety. All are sliding top-of-the-comb safeties. The Verney-Carron is totally silent going from safe to fire and requires very little effort. The W.J. Jeffery has an audible click and requires very little effort.

To me the Krieghoff safety is terrible, and dangerous. It requires a very significant effort to move under strong spring tension and has a very long throw- over an inch, and it is the noisiest of the three. Dangerous not only because of the noise but more because it has to be taken off safe long before the gun reaches the shoulder. In my opinion the safety should come off as the gun reaches the shoulder and go on as the gun comes off the shoulder, and this should be practiced until it becomes muscle memory. This allows for snap shots if caught suddenly by dangerous game. Also with the Krieghoff if one forgets to take it off safe and the gun is at the shoulder it now has to come off the shoulder, taking the sights off the animal, the safety moved to off, and then brought back to the shoulder with the need to re-aquire the animal in the sights. With the W.J. Jeffery or the Verney-Carron the safety can be operated while the gun is on the shoulder and sights on the animal.

Accuracy. So far I've only shot the Verney-Carron and its accuracy is excellent. Based on the regulation target included with the Krieghoff its accuracy is also excellent. I won't know about the W.J. Jeffery until I get it to the range. Both the Krieghoff and W.J. Jeffery have killed elephant (by previous owners).

Recoil. So far I've only shot the Verney-Carron. The recoil is manageable but it will get one's attention. I imagine due to its lighter weight the Krieghoff will be worse, but at this point that's just speculation. I expect the W.J. Jeffery will be less than the other two due to the heavier gun, lighter bullet, and larger case, but that is also just speculation. I will report back on these two.

Expelling fired ammo. Opening the action the W.J. Jeffery requires the least effort, the Krieghoff is next, with the Verney-Carron requiring the greatest effort.

Sexappeal. Okay this is purely subjective. For me, the W.J. Jeffery and the Verney-Carron have the greatest sexappeal. I'm not sure which I'm attracted to more.

Which will I take on my 2024 Elephant/Buffalo hunt? Certainly not the Krieghoff because of my dislike of its safety. I want to take the W.J. Jeffery for nostalgia reasons but the Verney-Carron's silent safety is pulling at me. Its ejector is a plus as well. Right now I'm giving the nod to the Verney-Carron. But the W.J. Jeffery is a 475 No.2 and the nostalgia thing is pulling hard. Good thing there is still plenty of time for me to change my mind.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Looking forward to hearing how the Jeffrey and the Krieghoff shoot and and what you think of the relative recoils. It is a pity there isn't a 500 Heym to compare too.

 

[Tanks]

...

Which will I take on my 2024 Elephant/Buffalo hunt? Certainly not the Krieghoff because of my dislike of its safety. I want to take the W.J. Jeffery for nostalgia reasons but the Verney-Carron's silent safety is pulling at me. Its ejector is a plus as well. Right now I'm giving the nod to the Verney-Carron. But the W.J. Jeffery is a 475 No.2 and the nostalgia thing is pulling hard. Good thing there is still plenty of time for me to change my mind.

At the distances you will be shooting, 20+ yards, the minute sound of the safety is not going to make a difference over the sounds the animals themselves make.

 

[AZDAVE]

The Krieghoff safety is a cocker/decoker like the Blazer. Not the saftey like the WJ Jeffery or the VC. It is designed that way so that is safe till you cock it. The other two have standard cocking when the rifle is open and closed and the safety is engaged. of the three the Krieghoff is the most safe to carry in the bush. Just has a different manual of arms than the others.

 

[Sourdough]

Can’t argue with the safety aspect of that design when hunting plains game, especially for hunters who are not well versed in firearms and/or have limited time to shoot or hunt. But not dangerous game, not for me anyway.

 

[Backyardsniper]

I have about 180+/- rounds through my Kreighoff now. I was unsure about the K gun safety at first and was even hesitant of buying the rifle. However after a bit of shooting, I really like it. I do not think it would be a hindrance in a snap shot situation. I have practiced a lot with lots of different scenarios, positions and such. With a little practice the cocking lever is slid forward in the same motion that the rifle comes to the shoulder. If I need to "safe" the rifle while it is shouldered I just remove my finger from the trigger and index my finger along the side of the action. If the rifle is shouldered I'm prepared to fire. Otherwise I lower it and decock the rifle. I think once you take the rifle out and get a few rounds through it you may decide you like it better than you think.
I will say the krieghoff is very easy to load for and it has been agreeable with every load I have tried and with the ones it really likes it is a solid 100 yard rifle.

 

[gcbailey]

I’d be very interested on your impressions regarding the Jeffery. Mine was made in 1900 and it is incredibly accurate for a double rifle. I just point and hit. Mine is a bit tamer as a 450/400 but would love to know about the accuracy you are able to achieve.

 

[flatwater bill]

I know a couple of PH's that prefer the Krieghoff's safety to all others. Perhaps with more use it will grow on you. FWIW, I have a WJ Jeffery made in 1902. Love it. Thanks for posting your observations. Let us know how you progress.....................FWB

 

[Sourdough]

Thanks for all your comments folks, I appreciate your thoughts. I can certainly understand some PH's preferring their clients have a Krieghoff safety for the PH's own safety.

I inadvertently left the 475 No.2 and 500NE ammo back in Texas (I suppose I figured there aren't a lot of elephants or buffalo to hunt in Louisiana) and won't be back in Texas until mid-November so can't shoot either gun till then. I do have a half-dozen rounds or so for both that were loaded for their elephant hunts but I'd like to keep these as they are. I'll definitely share what I learn.

 

[AZDAVE]

Can’t argue with the safety aspect of that design when hunting plains game, especially for hunters who are not well versed in firearms and/or have limited time to shoot or hunt. But not dangerous game, not for me anyway.

I always like that we can approach a subject from a couple different directions. I have shot most every military small arms from WW1 forward, and most all sporting platforms from the early 1800's on. You also sound like you have a very solid background in firearms. I see the Krieghoff as either a double for someone that has a lot experience that looks at the double and it's manual of arms and has no problem with the cocker/decocker or a new person to firearms that has no muscle memory on other more common safety mechanisms. If you decide you don't want the K-gun I will trade you a VC 8x57 and a 20 ga double rifle that shoots 7/8oz slug like a house afire.

 

[Backyardsniper]

I always like that we can approach a subject from a couple different directions. I have shot most every military small arms from WW1 forward, and most all sporting platforms from the early 1800's on. You also sound like you have a very solid background in firearms. I see the Krieghoff as either a double for someone that has a lot experience that looks at the double and it's manual of arms and has no problem with the cocker/decocker or a new person to firearms that has no muscle memory on other more common safety mechanisms. If you decide you don't want the K-gun I will trade you a VC 8x57 and a 20 ga double rifle that shoots 7/8oz slug like a house afire.

I'll second that on the manual of Arms for the K gun and doubles in general also. If you are gonna use one then you better practice with it. I posted the other day about my first trip out with the 20 gauge SxS that I bought as a trainer. Took it to shoot clays for practice and in the beginning I caught my self trying to pull the front trigger twice if I missed a clay with the first shot. No problem if I was just shooting at stationary targets and thinking about what I was doing, but on a fast follow up when the muscle memory kicked in my body did what it was used to doing, which is shooting and O/ U or auto with one trigger. Couple hundred rounds and I was working both triggers without thinking about it.

 

[Sourdough]

@AZDAVE I believe you are spot on. Thanks for that. Since I already have a 500NE I might consider a trade. If you don’t mind PM me a couple of pics. I was told by the previous owner that the Kriegoff only has a range day and the two shots on the elephant. But, the butt pad needs to be replaced. Looks like it stood in a gun case for 22 years and even some degeneration of the rubber has taken place. Any recommendations on who to send the gun to for a new butt pad? I’m leary about having my gun smith do it as he builds excellent hunting rifles but doesn’t have a lot of experience replacing butt pads on wood stocks. I’ll start a new thread on this gun and post some pictures with it.

 

[Sourdough]

Warning thread drift (and I’m causing it)

@AZDAVE since your firearm experience goes back to 1800 I figure you’d get a kick out of this. My favorite double, an English 20 bore from the early 1800’s. With dual ignition systems.

 

[yhc]

@Sourdough, the double rifle bug must have bit you very hard!!

Maybe because I have Blaser R8, I don’t mind the safety on my Kriegoff DR at all. Yes it does take more effort than a conventional safety, like what I have on my VC DR, but not bad. Of course if you have significant arthritis on your thumb, this style of safety may not be for you.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Sourdough WOW that 20 bore is very unusual, I have never seen a flint lock and cap lock action on the same rifle or shotgun. Thank you for sharing that is something special.

Will send you a PM

 

[Backyardsniper]

Warning thread drift (and I’m causing it)

@AZDAVE since your firearm experience goes back to 1800 I figure you’d get a kick out of this. My favorite double, an English 20 bore from the early 1800’s. With dual ignition systems.

View attachment 494695

That is all kinds of cool right there!

 

[Troubleshooter]

Age. The W.J. Jeffery was made in 1910. The Krieghoff in 2000. The Verney-Carron in 2020.

Models. Unsure if W.J. Jeffery (extractor) had differing models in 1910. The Verney-Carron (ejector) is an AZUR. The Krieghoff (extractor) is a Classic with a wood upgrade.

Cost. The W.J. Jeffery was the most expensive. The Verney-Carron next. The Krieghoff least (perhaps because it's an extractor).

Caliber. The W.J. Jeffery is 475 No.2. The Verney-Carron is 500NE. The Krieghoff is 500NE.

I have a (reproduction) copy of the Jeffery catalogue from that timeframe and can look up that information if you like. I'm quite certain that they offered several different models at various price-points.

Nice rifle(s) by the way.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

At the distances you will be shooting, 20+ yards, the minute sound of the safety is not going to make a difference over the sounds the animals themselves make.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I have had elephant, buffalo not to mention cats alerted by loud safeties,

 

[Sourdough]

I have a (reproduction) copy of the Jeffery catalogue from that timeframe and can look up that information if you like. I'm quite certain that they offered several different models at various price-points.

Nice rifle(s) by the way.

@Troubleshooter I would appreciate that. What do you need from me? It does have a buffalo engraved on both sides of the receiver. Favors a Cape more than a Water, but I've been told that most 475 No 2's went to India so there is that.

I have now reloaded and shot the Jeffery, actually wrote up an extensive story but lost it in the browser before it posted. I'll do it again. The Krieghoff I gifted a longtime friend and custom rifle maker would never afford one on his own.

 

[southern_fowler]

There is a guy on Texas Bowhunter forum that has two boxes of Kynoch 475 #2 amm for sale.