What do you think of the Winchester .405?

[Daktari]

What do ya'll think of the Winchester .405 as a African hunting caliber? After learning about Teddy Roosevelt's fascination with it has piqued my interest. How does the caliber measure up to .416 Rigby?

 

[Rem280]

Saw one the other day and ammo is hard to buy.

 

[eyedok]

Love mine, its not near the pop of my Rigby though, have only shot a few pigs w it, but it gets their attention

 

[Doug Hamilton]

What do ya'll think of the Winchester .405 as a African hunting caliber? After learning about Teddy Roosevelt's fascination with it has piqued my interest. How does the caliber measure up to .416 Rigby?

The .405 Win sends out a 300 grain bullet at about 2200 fps. The 416 Rigby drives a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps. The short, fat 300 gr. bullet also sheds energy very quickly. Energy at about he muzzle for the Winchester is about 3300 vs 5200 for the Rigby.

I do not own a rifle in either of these cartridges, but your question made me curious, so I looked them up just for fun. It doesn't look like they live in the same zip code to me.

 

[AimSmall]

Great cartridge, deadly, mine is accurate. But, ammo is like all the bigger calibers hard to find and expensive.

Remember that TR's "Big Stick", for dangerous game, was a H&H 500/450.

 

[Daktari]

Those of you who have one please post pictures!

 

[BeeMaa]

If you want a rimmed cartridge in the low .40 caliber range for hunting Africa, take a look at the 450/400NE.

Another option would be the 500/416NE which was made to duplicate the 416RIGBY performance in a rimmed case.

I understand that these are not available in lever action rifles but the dimensions of the cases and pressures they operate at preclude that option. Time to start looking for a double rifle.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I would love one someday for the nostalgia. But frankly, my .45-70 is doing everything I want from it right now. There might be some gains to be realized from the .405, but - at this point for me - not enough to justify the cost to be up and running. Someday maybe?

 

[MontanaGrant]

I love mine. Only taken Montana mule deer but it’s a good round. Recoil is brutal with the crescent buttplate. I’d much rather shoot any of my other .35+ caliber rounds I own.

I honestly equate it as a small bore .45-70 as ballistics are near identical. Mine is a newer tang safety 1895 but still a classic design.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Comparing the .405 Winchester and the .416 Rigby is like comparing chalk and cheese.

The .405 Winchester can (and has been used to) successfully take all members of the African Big Five. But it’s never going to be my first choice. 300Gr bullets traveling at 2200 FPS is no recipe for reliable success.

My American friend, Lester Bourban has extensively used a Winchester Model 1895 in .405 Winchester on one full bag safari to Tanzania. He used 300Gr Northfork bonded soft points that he had handloaded himself and properly tested, prior to taking it on safari. He mostly did quite commendably (including securing a large Cape buffalo bull with two behind-the-shoulder heart-lung shots). But he had some real trouble securing his lion with this caliber. Even with four shots to the heart-lung region (including two frontal heart shots). Those 300Gr bullets needed to be traveling at 2500-2530 FPS in order to reliably stop that lion.

I shot two audad sheep with that very same rifle and those very same handloads. Both were broadside double lung shots and in both cases, the game had completely expired within a minute of getting shot.

 

[AZDAVE]

The 405 is a nice deer, elk and bear rifle for the US. It would be good for African plains game and cats. for buff, elephant, rhino, and hippo the 416 is a MUCH BETTER option.
I have a nice 405 double that will make it to Africa one of these days.

 

[Red Leg]

The .405, like the 45/70, can be turned into something it wasn't originally intended to be with careful handloading and the correct rifle. @crs has used the .405 effectively in Africa.

As others have noted, I would not use a 300 gr bullet from a .405 on dangerous game regardless of the muzzle velocity I could achieve. That bullet has a sectional density of only .250. That simply will not give the assured penetration for thick skinned game of a 300 gr .375 (SD 305), or 400 gr .416 (SD 330) or 500 gr .458 (SD 341).

With respect to PG, the 300 gr bullet would be fine, but it has a ballistic coefficient of .250. The .375 has a BC of .342. It will not have the down range effectiveness of the more traditional rifles used for both PG and DG. That said, most shots a PG in Africa will be inside 200 yards. That would certainly be the case anyway if you were using iron sights on a Model 1895.

 

[hoytcanon]

I have had two Ruger No.1's in .405 Win, a Walnut Tropical and a H-laminate. You can load the cartridge up in the No.1 to make it do what you need for pretty much anything that walks, choosing the right bullet... however I do not consider the cartridge a "magnum" nor a traditional DG round, no disrespect to TR.

 

[fsrmg1]

Short of elephant and large rhino, the .405 will do fine, so long as you modernize the loads with premium bullets and powder. If done right, you should be able to get 350 gr. Swift A-Frame up to about 2250 fps without too much trouble, and at a reasonable pressures. I've taken 4 large buffalo with mine and never felt under gunned. Penetration was excellent!

 

[hoytcanon]

Short of elephant and large rhino, the .405 will do fine, so long as you modernize the loads with premium bullets and powder. If done right, you should be able to get 350 gr. Swift A-Frame up to about 2250 fps without too much trouble, and at a reasonable pressures. I've taken 4 large buffalo with mine and never felt under gunned. Penetration was excellent!

What platform is your .405 in? Thanks.

 

[fsrmg1]

A tried and true Winchester model 1895 of course!

 

[hoytcanon]

A tried and true Winchester model 1895 of course!

I figured... but thought I would ask to see if you were carrying something "funky." LOL.

 

[Huvius]

Those of you who have one please post pictures!

Mine is an 1895 with a little English flair:

 

[hoytcanon]

Mine is an 1895 with a little English flair:

View attachment 591226View attachment 591227View attachment 591228

That is a pretty rifle... a nice classic in the .405.

 

[Huvius]

That is a pretty rifle... a nice classic in the .405.

It really is a nice example although a bit unusual with the express sights.
Winchester records show it is correct for caliber and fancy wood and that it was shipped back quite soon after the original sale for some work. What work isn’t clear as those books were apparently lost in a flood so no telling if the sights are Winchester work or not.
They look in the Westley Richards style to me.
There is also a “P” stamped (or peened with a punch really) in the side of the action.
I like to imagine that the “P” stands for Percival as in Phillip Percival…LOL

It needs a good range session soon!