What Would Bob Nelson think of a .358x57 Round?

[hawkeyesatx]

Hey Bob!

I was wondering what you would think of necking up an 8mm Mauser cartridge to .358 caliber.
It wouldn’t be per se a 9x57, because I’m thinking of it being higher pressure like the .35 Whelen.
It would fall in between the .358 Win and the .35 Whelen power wise.
It would probably be a 180 gr to 225 gr shooter, but that’s enough to cover a whole slew of game animals worldwide.
I believe I could scrounge up some 9x57 reloading dies somewhere, so it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to come up with the new round.


Hawk

 

[ChrisG]

It would just be a 9x57. It would only be a few thousandths different in bullet diameter if it were necked up to .358.

 

[sestoppelman]

The thing about wildcats is either its already been done and if not done, its usually for a reason.

 

[TNDave]

Bob would be happy with me, I shot 4 out of 8 with my semi custom Rem 700 35 Whelen just a few weeks ago. Shooting 225 grain Northforks, dropped a kudu, zebra, bush buck and Impala and the longest track was about 25 yards. Really like my Whelen! However, I do have a 300 Weatherby sitting in the safe that may become a 358 STA (Whelen big brother) someday if the madness with components ever dies down.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I think Bob has a friend who has that and it’s called the 358 Mitchell. I think.

 

[hawkeyesatx]

It would just be a 9x57. It would only be a few thousandths different in bullet diameter if it were necked up to .358.

Right, but it would be a higher pressure cartridge than the original 9x57.
That one was a little underpowered to me.
Let’s say 52k CUP, or around 62k psi.


Hawk

 

[hawkeyesatx]

I think Bob has a friend who has that and it’s called the 358 Mitchell. I think.

If so, I would like to see specs on it!!


Hawk

 

[Alaska Luke]

There is another 358 Wildcat that I'd like to check out eventually. It's the 358 Grant 1.8. Apparently it's a WSSM case trimmed to 1.8 inches and blown out to 358. Basically a 35 Whelen super short mag.

Why? Well apparently Indiana had some goofy restrictions for deer hunting cartridges, 1.8 inch case and 35 cal more. 358 Grant 1.8 was and attempt to get the most velocity possible given those restrictions.

Now I don't live in Indiana but I like short powerful rifles. Someday I'd like to get a mini bolt action and make a super short/light rifle on it. Basically an updated version of the short 358 Winchester I have for hike hunts.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I think Bob has a friend who has that and it’s called the 358 Mitchell. I think.

The .358 Mitchell might be a necked up .303 case? I believe that’s what Bob related to me.

 

[425SCHADE]

The .358 Mitchell Express as he calls it was indeed built on the 57mm case (8x57 was the parent).
Built by Ted Mitchell Snr here in Aus. He wrote an article on it in Guns & Game.

I have a copy of it but I'm not at home at the moment. Let me know if you cant locate the info online and I'll dig it up in a couple of days.

 

[CoElkHunter]

With all this discussion about .35 caliber wildcat cartridges, it may be time for Bob to get a Japanese Arisaka Type 99 7.7x58 rifle. He could have the barrel rebored to .35 and neck up the 7.7 cases to .35, which would then become the .35 Banzai Nelson wildcat. He’d be the first on his block to have one?

 

[CBH Australia]

I think Bob has a friend who has that and it’s called the 358 Mitchell. I think.

Correct

Here is the links I found but there was a full write up too

Guns and Game Magazine

Meet the team: Ted Mitchell - Sporting Shooter

Name and birthplace? Born 12th March 1943. Named Norman Edward Mitchell, but always known as Ted or Teddy. When did you first start hunting? I suppose it was when I stalked and shot the family dog with a bow and arrow at around 9 years of age. Then at age 14 years I bought my...

www.sportingshooter.com.au

 

[hawkeyesatx]

I saw that info earlier, but wasn’t able to glean anything other than it was Ted Mitchell who came up with the wildcat from what I surmise from seeing the preliminary article headers.
I would still like to see the specifics of loads and velocities.


Hawk

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hey Bob!

I was wondering what you would think of necking up an 8mm Mauser cartridge to .358 caliber.
It wouldn’t be per se a 9x57, because I’m thinking of it being higher pressure like the .35 Whelen.
It would fall in between the .358 Win and the .35 Whelen power wise.
It would probably be a 180 gr to 225 gr shooter, but that’s enough to cover a whole slew of game animals worldwide.
I believe I could scrounge up some 9x57 reloading dies somewhere, so it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to come up with the new round.


Hawk

@hawkeyesatx
Sorry to disappoint you Hawk but a good friend of mine Ted Mitchell has done that as well as ackley improved it as well. The cartridge is called the 358 Mitchell Express. You can actually google it .
Bob

hawk on the left is the 358 Mitchell express.
Right is my 25/303 Epps newton improved necked up to 358. Basically a rimmed 8x57 capacity
Both are capable of the same loads and isn't that far behind the Whelen. Ted uses his to great effect on water buffalo and scrub bulls with the 225 grain Barnes

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I saw that info earlier, but wasn’t able to glean anything other than it was Ted Mitchell who came up with the wildcat from what I surmise from seeing the preliminary article headers.
I would still like to see the specifics of loads and velocities.


Hawk

@hawkeyesatx
I think Ted gets around 2,600 fps with 225 grain bullets using 2206H/H4895.
I could call him ask for his loads and pm you if you want. I think there is about 8 358 Mitchell Express rifles around now. Ted had his brass made by Bertram brass properly head stamped.
Bob

 

[ChrisG]

At the end of the day... I still really like the .358 win that Bob talked me into.

 

[hawkeyesatx]

@hawkeyesatx
Sorry to disappoint you Hawk but a good friend of mine Ted Mitchell has done that as well as ackley improved it as well. The cartridge is called the 358 Mitchell Express. You can actually google it .
Bob
View attachment 409456
hawk on the left is the 358 Mitchell express.
Right is my 25/303 Epps newton improved necked up to 358. Basically a rimmed 8x57 capacity
Both are capable of the same loads and isn't that far behind the Whelen. Ted uses his to great effect on water buffalo and scrub bulls with the 225 grain Barnes

Hey Bob!

That’s really cool Ted came up with that!
I like that cartridge as well.
I have tried to find more about the cartridge, but all that I can find is just that Ted was the originator.
I can’t find any load data, or pressure data.
It would be cool to have that info.


Hawk

 

[hawkeyesatx]

@hawkeyesatx
I think Ted gets around 2,600 fps with 225 grain bullets using 2206H/H4895.
I could call him ask for his loads and pm you if you want. I think there is about 8 358 Mitchell Express rifles around now. Ted had his brass made by Bertram brass properly head stamped.
Bob

Yes, please!!
I would greatly appreciate that if you could?

Is there any fitting that would have to be done to convert a 8x57 Mauser to .35 Whelen?
Is there anything that would need to be done with the feed rails?
I know the Europeans load the bullets a little further out than Americans are accustomed to, so I’m hoping the magazine and feed rails won’t be an issue.


Hawk

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

At the end of the day... I still really like the .358 win that Bob talked me into.

@ChrisG
That's good mate but I didn't talk you into anything you had already made up your mind, you just needed more information.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hey Bob!

That’s really cool Ted came up with that!
I like that cartridge as well.
I have tried to find more about the cartridge, but all that I can find is just that Ted was the originator.
I can’t find any load data, or pressure data.
It would be cool to have that info.


Hawk

@hawkeyesatx
Mare get a ruger No1 in 303 and have it rebored to 35 and epps improve it. That takes the case capacity up tt o 60 grains of powder.
Bob