Why are Weatherby guns in 375+ calibers not liked on a Safari?

[Norway_woods]

Hello.

My friend did return from a SA Safari and told me that the PH in the camp told him that they did not like Weatherby guns for dangerous game.
They do not work good.
Really? Is that so?
I have two MkV in 300 and one in 340, they work great.
Has these something to do with the recoil level being high on the Weatherby calibers, compared to a say 375 H&H or 458 WM? Meaning the hunter is not able to handle the recoil?
Or, is it that the guns do not have controlled round feeing as a M98 and others?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I think it has a lot to do with the recoil and shooters who won't admit they're scared of it and subseqently cannot place their shot. Another PH's impression is that guy that shows up with latest and greatest super boomer and super expensive Wby and a bunch of new clothes is likely unprepared. It would only take a couple of times of that action followed by a dangerous follow up to paint all Wby owners with the same brush.

 

[rookhawk]

I think there is a lot of bias for and against Weatherby. I could only use conjecture to come up with some of the reasons "against" Weatherby they may have had in mind:

1. Extra noisy and often with a muzzle break that drives PHs nuts.
2. Obnoxious recoil compared to the alternatives makes for problems. Jerking the shot. Scope ring on the forehead. Loose screws.
3. Availability of cartridges is scarce.
4. Philosophical differences: Roy thought speed killed. Many in Africa (and here) think slow transfer of all energy and "hang time" in body kills. .375HH, 6.5x55 and 7x57 all fit this philosophy that runs against Roy's views.
5. Experiencial differences: Bullets going that fast sheer apart and glance

 

[Ray B]

If you are referring to the 375 Wby, the ballistics of it closely match the various Improved 375s. If the prejudices against the Wby are not shared with the other 375 Imps, then the PH's prejudices must be based on previous experiences with clients that were unprepared and had unrealistic expectations regarding the lethality of their rifle.

 

[Divernhunter]

Think about it. Weatherby is a high dollar product compared to many other brands--even considering a non-Weatherby cartridge in a Weatherby rifle.
Add to that is the fact that some Weatherby owners I have know are(Status, try to impress) type of people. Their hunting/shooting skills often are minimal.
Put another way --as my PH said---"There are born hunters and then there are money made hunters" The born hunters know their firearm/bow and (have practiced)know how to use it. They also know how to hunt and usually the tape measure is not the most important thing. They are enjoyable to be with and when things go wrong accept it as part of hunting.
I have personally run into hunters who show up with brand new camo, a new rifle and scope(usually expensive), looking for a record book or at least super bragging animal(usually want it tied to a tree close to camp and the truck) and then complain about everything but their poor shooting ability if (Actually when) they miss. After all they had the rifle bore-sighted at the gun shop

Born hunters can show up with a Weatherby and after proving themselves leave a good impression.

Money made hunters are not really hunters in my eyes and leave a bad taste(impression) with most people in camp. Especially when they are more concerned about drinking and bragging what a great person they are, a great hunter with mounts on their office walls, who they know, how much money they make and how they are better than most others. All ego and no skill.

All the above works against the Weatherby name plus the super shiny(no help when hunting) fancy stocks and such on many of their rifles. Working people often look at those rifles "look at me", show-off rifles and not "using tools"

All that said I have a 257W that I really like. It is the cheapest MK V they make with syn stock and not highly blued barrel/action. It is a "Hunting" and used by a "born Hunter" according to my PH and people who know me.

 

[larry4831]

Aren't most of the Weatherby's, even the bigger calibers, push feed and not controlled round feed.

 

[K-man]

If you look back at some of the history of the early weatherby rifles, they were higher velocity without the better constructed bullets we have today. This caused some bullets to disintegrate on impact and turn what looked like a good shot into a wounded and dangerous animal. Many P.H.'s remember these and are highly suspicious of them today. Mine was o.k. with the weatherby rifle I have in .300 because it is a winchester chamber and i shot barnes bullets. I am sure the other reasons given above add to the negative reactions, they have a lifetime of shooting and clients to make decisions, trust them and remember it is their life and yours in the balance.

 

[PaulT]

A rifle is simply a platform that houses the cartridge.

Neither actually kill the animal you are hunting, they are merely the support tools that launch the projectile that actually creates the damage that does the killing.

For a PH to claim Weatherby rifles do not work displays ignorance.

When loaded with appropriate projectiles that can perform up to the generous velocities created by the majority of Weatherby cartridges, and those projectiles are placed correctly by a hunter who is competent with Weatherby rifles then they can are devastatingly effective.
A quick search in to hunting history will show you that a great generation of SCI Hall of Famers hunted and travelled the World, not just Africa with Weatherby rifles. Watson Yoshimoto, Elgin Gates, Prince Abdorezza etc etc etc.
Try telling that mob that Weatherby's don't work.

 

[Norway_woods]

Hello and thank you all for the information.
Well, I am glad that what I did fear was some the reasons for these has to to with the user, not the gun and also to that Weatherby did use poor bullets, a good bullet in 375 H&H may not be a good bullet in a 378 WM, same to be with a 450 NE vs a 460 WB. Recoil is another thing, yes, the 375 H&H has a good recoil, so if you are not used to that, I can imagine how the shooting will be if you show up with a 378.....
Take it that the user can handle the gun, use good bullets for the caliber and also stay away from the noise increasers, I hope that users of Weatherby guns and calibers can be a good client, just as a 375 H&H user.

Once a bad reputation has been made, hard to change it, and a bad reputation can be made by few.....sadly.

 

[Divernhunter]

^^^^ PaulT--- The PH is not ignorant.
What you say about a rifle being a platform is true. The trouble comes from when you have someone in high heels and a mini skirt trying to do lumberjack work. This is the trouble with too many Weatherby owners.
They are not the SCI hall of famers that cause the bad rap on the Weatherby. They are the lumberjacks(so to speak) that understand the rifle/cartridge, pick the proper cartridge for the game and location, AND pick a proper bullet for the situation.
The trouble comes from the money made, want-to-be hunters that have to have the pretty and fancy(expensive) rifle(and usually the scope) to try and impress everyone else. They do not shoot well(even with a lesser cartridge), do not understand hunting, EXPECT the record book animal and such. This can put the PH life's in risk at worse or just cause a lot of tracking troubles, wounded animals and such. Not to mention they complain about this or that concerning the operation or staff or PH----which is unjustified.

So you are correct in the "appropriate projectiles"(just a fancy way to say bullets) and "generous velocities" being "placed correctly by a HUNTER who is competent" "are devastatingly effective".
The same can be said about a firearm that is not a Weatherby and at less than "generous velocities". They can and are also "effective". Example---I like my 257W and my 25-06 but my daughter has killed quite a number of animals in Africa and the USA with her 257Roberts(a mild cartridge) and ALL have been one shot kills with no tracking. Proper bullets (projectiles to those wanting to impress), suited to the game with proper placement does the trick. She has taken African game at 135 to 410 yards. Just as well as my Weatherby that I DO know how to use.
The trouble is too many of the Weatherby owners do not fall into the HUNTER group. Those you pointed out are HUNTERS. It is the others that hurt the name and can put the PH into a bad spot. They also look stupid to real hunters be it in Africa or the deer woods in the USA. I have seen my share of them. I avoid them once they prove to be that type.

I will say it is not the rifle/cartridge but the shooter, and their abilities/knowledge, that makes a difference between a hunter and a want-to-be-here -to impress person. So while I disagree with part of your post I also agree with part of it. You cannot select a few people to make a general statement. You need to look at the total picture.

Posted by a Weatherby rifle/cartridge hunter----but also shoots/hunts with many other rifles/cartridges

 

[Odinsraven]

A rifle is simply a platform that houses the cartridge.

Neither actually kill the animal you are hunting, they are merely the support tools that launch the projectile that actually creates the damage that does the killing.

For a PH to claim Weatherby rifles do not work displays ignorance.

When loaded with appropriate projectiles that can perform up to the generous velocities created by the majority of Weatherby cartridges, and those projectiles are placed correctly by a hunter who is competent with Weatherby rifles then they can are devastatingly effective.
A quick search in to hunting history will show you that a great generation of SCI Hall of Famers hunted and travelled the World, not just Africa with Weatherby rifles. Watson Yoshimoto, Elgin Gates, Prince Abdorezza etc etc etc.
Try telling that mob that Weatherby's don't work.

I think you may have answered your own question tbh. People who carry Weatherby''s on the whole are driven people to have the most powerful most etc ....

My best client when I ocaasionally guided .....was an older gentleman with a sporterised 303 Brit ..... he fired three shots his whole trip .....one to check zero and 2 nice fallow deer for the freezer ....

Weatherby and other super magnums usually ended in long walks ........

The AI guys were usually engineers of some species or another and on the whole quite civilised ......

But as to every rule there are exceptions

 

[Ray B]

I think the issue actually developed from some advertisements and articles printed in magazines that also happened to be selling full page ads to Weatherby. The issue was what was called "hydrostatic shock"- the idea was that a bullet of high velocity would hit an animal and the shockwave caused by the impact would follow the blood veins and arteries back to the heart and brain of the animal- causing the immediate death of the animal. In the early years Hornady bullets were used and they were the plain cup/core bullets without any sort of core retention system. The bullets performed fairly well at 30-06 velocities but pushed to magnum speeds, they opened quickly and shortly had core separation. this disintegration of the bullet did lead to a significant shockwave in the animal. This shockwave was to follow the arteries/veins much like pressure pushing water through a pipe, so the location of the strike of the bullet was considered largely irrelevant. A hit in the thigh would cause pressure which would be transmitted through the arteries/veins to the heart/brain killing the animal.

This hydrostatic shock theory and the idea of a straight as a string trajectory which allowed shots to 600 yards and beyond with no need to adjust for bullet drop were part of the Weatherby sales pitch. With the willing magazine publishers as accomplices and a few "gun writers" willing to sell their soul the idea was sold to a lot of sportsmen that wanted the glory of association with such cutting edge technology. By merely shooting a Weatherby Magnum they could make a shot easily at 600 yards, hit the animal anywhere and it would be dead before it hit the ground.

The result was a lot of Weatherby users that were completely ignorant as to the external and terminal ballistic performance of their bullets- and these hunters resulted in wounding a lot of game. Thus you have a reputation built that in some situations has yet to be overcome.

 

[Therack]

Weatherby didn't do their reputation any favors when they starting selling cheap rifles at Wal-Mart. Maybe the PH's have seen too many of those.

 

[rookhawk]

I'm sure I'll offend many here with this, especially considering I have no idea what weatherby charges for a gun: they've always looked like cheap plastic to me. The old high grade models looked like a pimp had a hand in the stock colors and whoever decided on the stock geometry of the wood models of old had not one ounce of gunfit understanding.

Given all of the above, I'm going to assume they are hideously expensive and that they must operate like Swiss watches because there is no other reason I can infer for their popularity as a "rich man's gun".

 

[Wheels]

Hello.

My friend did return from a SA Safari and told me that the PH in the camp told him that they did not like Weatherby guns for dangerous game.
They do not work good.
Really? Is that so?
I have two MkV in 300 and one in 340, they work great.
Has these something to do with the recoil level being high on the Weatherby calibers, compared to a say 375 H&H or 458 WM? Meaning the hunter is not able to handle the recoil?
Or, is it that the guns do not have controlled round feeing as a M98 and others?

If you like your Weatherby's and can shoot them, who cares what the PH thinks. Take them with you to Africa and have fun!

 

[Big5]

If you like your Weatherby's and can shoot them, who cares what the PH thinks. Take them with you to Africa and have fun!

I agree. Besides, opinions are like a-holes in that everybody has one.

 

[larry4831]

I've had 4 Weatherby rifles. Everyone of them shot five shot group well under an inch at 100 yards. They say the free bore is detrimental to accuracy, but I've never had a problem getting them to shoot well. The only Weatherby I have at the moment is a 257 Weatherby Magnum in the Vanguard and it is a tack driver. The bigger calibers they are all Push feed whereas a lot of people prefer the controlled Round feed. The one thing that I don't like about them is the length of pull, they all seem too short for me.

 

[rookhawk]

The one thing that I don't like about them is the length of pull, they all seem too short for me.

Yeah, like ONLY 15.5" ? ...because people are afraid of the Weatherby kiss?

 

[Norway_woods]

Well, based on these I think we agree, know your rifle, use a good bullet and it will work.
I will go with my Weatherbys to Africa.

 

[Neale]

Go with what ever makes you happy Norway woods. I am no expert but the main driving factor to choose any firearm to take on your expensive safari to Africa is one you are most comfortable with and have the upmost confidence.
I currently have two custom rifles in Weatherby cartridges ( 300 Wby and 375 Wby) but I am taking my Remington 300 WSM on my next PG safari even though I got the 375 Wby specifically for Africa. If I had a DG safari planned I have no doubt I would be taking the 375 Wby along.
Take your Weatherby and prove the PH wrong.